Planning my first tour, advice wanted (Central Europe)

[bigGuyOnBike]

Hi,

I'm planning to finally do a longer cycle tour through Europe in July-August. My idea is to take the ferry from Helsinki to Travemünde (I live in Finland, this seems like the best way to get me and my bike to Europe), then I'd visit friends in Dresden and Bratislava, before heading to Bonn, where I need to be last week of August. From Bonn I'd probably take the train back to Travemünde and the ferry home. Depends on how soon I need to get back. I'd be traveling solo.

A few questions:
1) The route. I've looked at google maps and checked some cycling routes. One good option seems to be to follow the Elbe cycle route on the way down through Germany and the Danube route from Bratislava to Regensburg. I read that the Danube is best to cycle in the other direction, but it should be okay going westwards as well, right? I could follow the Elbe into Czech Republic, close to Prague, from there I'd have to find some other route. For example EuroVelo 4 to Brno and from there EuroVelo 9 seems to get quite close to Bratislava. Is it a good idea for a noob tourer to follow routes like that, or should I just grab any map and look for my own route?

2) The schedule. It looks like the total length of the route would be somewhere between 2000-2500km, depending on how many detours I take. Is 500km/week too ambitious (5x100km, 2 rest days)? I'm quite comfortable doing long one day rides with loaded panniers, have done up to 160km, but I haven't done any multi day touring before.

3) Accommodation. Still considering if I should buy a tent. It seems there's quite a lot of affordable B&B places at least in Germany. What is the experience with these in general? Easy to find vacant rooms? Easier to find camping spots if I bring a tent? Even if I did bring a tent, I'd imagine I'd still want to stay in some B&B type establishment every now and then, and I'm staying with friends in a few places, so the tent would maybe be used maybe 10-15 nights. Economically it appears it wouldn't make much of a difference, as good lightweight tents seem to be quite expensive... Unless, of course, I want to use the tent for more bike touring later.

4) Other. Any tips regarding cycling in Germany, Czech republic or Austria, or general tips for a first bicycle tour, are welcome.

 

[smith4188]

1. Personally I'd make your own route and visit the types of places you're interested in. My only experience of the Danube route was cycling from Bratislava to Vienna and it was one of the most boring rides I've ever done. Also, I accidentally crossed a EuroVelo route in Croatia and suddenly the hotels were a lot more expensive (albeit with a small discount for cyclists). Statistically, I shouldn't draw any conclusions from that but more tourists generally equals higher prices. Berlin and Prague are two of the most amazing cities in Europe. It'd be a shame to get so close and miss them. And Brno is worth a look too, as is Lübeck.

2. It doesn't sound like you'll have any problem with that, although personally I'd do 80-odd kilometres a day and only have one rest day unless you want more days off the bike to see the cities properly. Hoofing it around a city isn't much of a rest day though.

3. I tented it most of the way through Germany. There are plenty of campsites. If money's not an issue then keep it light and stay in B&Bs but I suspect once you've done this tour you'll want to do more and so a tent might be worth the investment. I was often in cities (including Dresden) and so perhaps that's why Germany seemed expensive. My hotels averaged €53 (2011). The Czech Republic had some cheap B&Bs (averaged €25 although the cheapest was only €12.)

4. I've got a page for each country on my site with price info, road quality, etc: Austria, Czech Republic and Germany. It might be useful. Oh, and when in the Czech Republic make sure you have a huge plateful of roast pork, cabbage and dumplings. It sounds dull but tastes great. After Finland, you'll also appreciate Czech beer prices.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[bigGuyOnBike]

Thank you, those are some great tips! Makes sense that accommodation is more expensive along popular tourist routes, maybe a good idea to stay a bit further from those.

I had a look at your site, great information there as well! But it also confirmed my suspicion, that northern Germany isn't the most exciting landscape to cycle through. I'm also considering the option to fly to some destination in central Europe and start the tour from there. The main requirements are to visit Bratislava at some point and end in Bonn, aiming at a total of about 2000km. If I'd fly to Prague, Vienna, Krakow or Budapest, I could do more mileage in the more interesting southern parts of Europe, and I'd have a lot more freedom with my route. Maybe even make it down to the Adriatic Sea and cross the alps on the way back.

The main reason I was thinking about taking the ferry from Finland to Germany was that I'd feel a lot more safe with my bike. What kind of risks are involved when packing a bicycle on the plane? Reading other online forums, it seems many people have bad experiences with it, but those with bad experiences are of course also more likely to speak up. Do people here in general feel safe with stuffing their bikes in the cargo space of an airplane?

 

[psmiffy]

If I'd fly to Prague, Vienna, Krakow or Budapest, I could do more mileage in the more interesting southern parts of Europe, and I'd have a lot more freedom with my route. Maybe even make it down to the Adriatic Sea and cross the alps on the way back.

Makes sense - If you are limited for time - Elbe is a nice ride through eastern Germany - but not the most spectacular of routes - you get more bangs for your bucks the further south you are

Flying is no big deal - just need to organise yourself, bike and kit for the flight - disposable box for the bike, disposable bag for the kit

 

[snorri]

Your plan is really quite ambitious for a "first tour", certainly doable but ambitious!
Re your Para 2 .I would not like to be setting daily distance targets, you may never get the opportunity again to visit some of the places on your planned route, so why not take a bit of time to explore and appreciate them rather than feel driven by a daily distance target? It's the people I've met and quirky things found when exploring that make a tour memorable, not the hours of head down pedalling
Keep open the option of using the railway for part of your route. You will go through phases of being tired and bored, half a day on a train can rest mind and body and generally raise the spirits.
I think you should take a tent, it keeps costs down and provides another option when hotel or hostel accommodation is difficult to find, you will be travelling in a period of peak demand.
There are Bikeline guide books for the route up the Elbe and on to Prague, also from Bratislava to Regensburg(Donau Radweg).
Tip for Cz Republic.......If when eating in a restaurant the waiter/waitress asks if you would like another beer just say yes, it will already be on your bill so you might as well drink it, this will save any disputes when it comes to paying the bill.
All the best, enjoy

 

[Bodhbh]

The plan looks good to me. As the Elbe is flat you can always bang out the miles if you want. A tent will pay for itself fairly quickly if you're gone for 2 months. It's not just about the money - if the worst comes to the worst you have always got a bed for the night (if only behind a hedge). Czech Republic is still cheap, especially if you like your beer. 70p a pint for the best beer in the world Vienna is not so cheap. I find flying with a bike stressful and a pain in the ass, but I've not really had many problems in about 15 flights. People only post about it when they do have a problem.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Do consider the fact that you are planning this in the main holiday season. Accommodation is going to be booked and you may well have problems actually just arriving and getting a room. As a touring cyclist no campsite will turn you away (even when they are marked full), that is not the case with B&B. Also B&B limits your food options unless you happen to want to eat out every night and can restrict what time you leave in the morning. I am for a tent every time personally. I would not consider going without one, but I have camped all my life, so that is my preference and they do prove useful in an emergency.

I personally think your mileage is a touch ambitious for a first tour, but it is your tour and you need to remember that. I would be looking a lower distance per day of say 80km but am quite happy to cycle 6 days a week. Our first tour we did 13 days straight with no break. It was fine because we only had that to do and the last day was an easy short day, but for a longer tour, I prefer to take more breaks. When we went off on our much longer tour, we aimed to have a rest/wash day every 6-7 days and we also only aimed to cycle 8-4 or 9-5 so that we could relax in the evenings.

Have you factored in sightseeing? Going through cities, finding food, accommodation and sightseeing all slow you down, as does other 'traffic' on the routes you use. They all reduce the distance you cycle each day. As does how long you want to cycle for each day. You need to work out how many hours a day you want to be on the road cycling. You appear to be considering a 4-5 week tour working on your figures, so you are also going to need to factor in 'wash' days when not just you but your clothing get washed and dried and you bike maintenance done. This will eat in to rest time considerably.

Personally I would also get away from the main cycle routes. Go off and see what you want to see rather than what the world wants you to see. Following these routes for some of it is fine, but all of it? Where is the adventure in that? If you can read a map, follow road signs, get off the beaten track and enjoy yourself. Don't worry about getting lost, it is part of the fun and adventure and you will always find somewhere larger eventually.

So, go off and work out what you want to see. Are there specific tourist spots that you want to go to? Now work out a route to get to them and work from there. It will be much more interesting. It will be much more personal and it will be your holiday, your first tour, not someone else's.

 

[bigGuyOnBike]

Thank you all for the advice! A lot of food for thought.

Good to hear different opinions on the mileage, it's hard for me to evaluate how much is doable. Or maybe "doable" is the wrong word, I should probably say "enjoyable". After all, I am hoping to enjoy the ride. Those of you who think it might be ambitious for a first tour, do you mean the mileage/week or the overall length of the tour?

I'm considering a 4-5 week tour, yes. Now when I brought up the flying option, I'm totally overwhelmed by all the different possibilities. Adding trains to the equation of course opens up even more possibilities. I'd like to plan the journey with a few important waypoints that I'd like to visit on the way. I'm trying not to make it too tight to leave room for exploration when I find more interesting areas. Though most of the places that interest me lie south of the alps. I've traveled a lot in Germany and have visited Prague several times. Now I'm considering flying to Vienna and starting the tour from there. Then I could swap Germany and Prague for Ljubljana and some of northern Italy.

Everybody seems to agree that bringing a tent is the way to go. I'll have a look at the options. How do you deal with equipment safety on camp sites? Just leave your gear in the tent while you go out exploring the town?

How much spare parts should be brought on a one month tour that doesn't head too far out in the wilderness? My bike is a one year old Ridgeback Voyage, still in very good condition.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I don't think it is the concept of 4-5 weeks that people think is ambitious for a first tour. In fact it is a great length. It is the distance you want to cover (and enjoy) in a day that is the issue. Don't overplan it. You need to be flexible and not tied into deadlines otherwise you are going to stress yourself out trying to meet those deadlines. Build on something slightly shorter and have the option to extend it if you have time, rather than building on something longer and having to cut it short. It is nowhere near as disheartening extending a tour as it is shortening it!

Where you go is up to you. Don't let anyone else influence you (though personally I would have been heading north from where you are and enjoying a Scandinavian tour - free camping and fantastic scenery, but I just happen to love Scandinavia! 70-80km a day 6 days a week is roughly what most people on a camping tour end up doing and enjoying. People do do much more, don't get me wrong, but I am not sure how much of enjoyment becomes necessity and I have to do this, rather than I fancy a half day today because I have come across something interesting. Tours where you are relaxed about the mileage are much more enjoyable and any experienced tourer will tell you that.

Spares - if you are going to somewhere plentiful of cyclists and bike shops, then just the basics are needed. The ability to repair several punctures a day, a tyre boot, chain splitter and spare link or two, cleaning material and oil, cable ties etc. A couple of spare inner tubes will never go a miss, but a spare tyre is probably going too far. Loads of inner tube self adhesive patches are useful not just for inner tubes. I have repaired holes in my footprint for my tent, my actual tent , my waterproof top after a barbed wire incident, my sleeping bag after ripping it in the zip and the feathers trying to escape, and various other such items. You get the picture. Sometimes I even repair inner tubes with them . I would be looking a spares more for the tent - if the pole snapped what are you going to do? Have you got a spare sleeve for the pole. What would you do if the elastic inside the pole snapped? A spare length is really useful and doubles for peg rubbers, a washing line... A needle and thread for any other repairs... A safety pin or two is always useful, as is a first aid kit. Oh and a small roll of duck tape (also known as elephant tape, its that black or silver tape that is really useful, rather like a good selection of cable ties!)

 

[midliferider]

Just to complicate the issue further, these are from my personal experience in doing short tours in Europe.

Planning takes time depending how prepared you would like to be. For a such a long tour in July, you get to prepare asap.
Perhaps the distance you suggested is ambitious for a first tour. It depends on not just what is doable but how long can you stay away from home. I can not stay away from home for more than 3 weeks. If you have previous experience of staying away for a longer period, it is fine.

 

[xilios]

You can fly easy enough just do the research and follow airline rules and you'll be ok. As stated earlier disposable box and just set up the bike at the airport. If your worried book a room for the first day near the airport and take a cab.
I wouldn't worry about the distance too much, I did 2800 kilometers on my first tour from Maastricht, NL to Athens, GR for my first tour. A bit of training will always help, but if your still worried just plan the first few days along a river or canal to warm up.
Again as stated earlier I would get a tent even if I had the money for B&B's, just to have more options and plan for +/-80kms a day for 6 days a week, so you'll have more time (each day) for the sites and evening refreshments.
cheers

 

[bigGuyOnBike]

Okay, tent acquired. I was looking at the MSR Hubba Hubba NX, but in the end I opted for a Terra Nova Hoolie 2. It weighs 600g more, but it came at 1/3 of the price of the MSR. I figured there are cheaper ways to shave 600g of the traveling weight, like drinking less beer. Also got myself an Exped synmat. Will head out to test the equipment next weekend.

I'm now trying to plan the route so that the distance, as plotted on google maps, shows as about 400km/week. That should leave enough leeway for detours and longer stops, I hope. I'm also planning it so that the last week would have easy train access to Bonn, in case I am behind schedule.

I'm not quite sure what to think about going over the alps, if I head for northern Italy. So far I've only been biking in southern Finland, which is quite flat, and I have absolutely no idea what it really means to go up an alpine pass on a loaded touring bike. I'm in my mid 30s, and have a few marathons under my belt, so I'm thinking I should be able to pull it off, if I start well rested in the morning and take it slow. Any recommended routes from Italy through Austria or Switzerland to Germany for novice climbers?

 

[xilios]

I'm not quite sure what to think about going over the alps, if I head for northern Italy. So far I've only been biking in southern Finland, which is quite flat, and I have absolutely no idea what it really means to go up an alpine pass on a loaded touring bike. I'm in my mid 30s, and have a few marathons under my belt, so I'm thinking I should be able to pull it off, if I start well rested in the morning and take it slow. Any recommended routes from Italy through Austria or Switzerland to Germany for novice climbers?


I think you can handle an alpine pass. You could try going halfway up the pass (off choice) camp or get a room (or even take a rest day) than continue up when ready. But really I wouldn't worry.
The route from Lake Garda to Innsbruck is really nice, we didn't cycle it last year, ran out of time and money. We took the train to the top and cycled down to Innsbruck. Many links on google.
The 177 road from Zirl, Austria heading north to Germany is nice but the first couple of kilometers are tough at %16 with a lot of traffic. Recommend you choose another way.

 

[doog]

I'm not quite sure what to think about going over the alps, if I head for northern Italy. So far I've only been biking in southern Finland, which is quite flat, and I have absolutely no idea what it really means to go up an alpine pass on a loaded touring bike. I'm in my mid 30s, and have a few marathons under my belt, so I'm thinking I should be able to pull it off, if I start well rested in the morning and take it slow. Any recommended routes from Italy through Austria or Switzerland to Germany for novice climbers?

Just make sure your gearing is low enough to cope...very important !! I literally got off a plane and within a few hours was cycling (fully loaded) up mountain passes in the Pyrenees without any prior serious mountain training other than a daily commute and longer weekend rides..and I have a few years on you. Plenty of stops, drink and eat at regular intervals and enjoy the scenery.... oh yeah, take Nurofen plus for the knees...I suffered in that respect but on this occasion didnt have my cycling legs before hitting the mountains.

 

[bigGuyOnBike]

Ok, thanks. I shall not fear the alps then. My bike has a triple, smallest gear would be 28/32. I have literally never used the smallest front chainring, there simply are no hills that would require it here in Finland.