Podium Girls

[Fab Foodie]

No. Their relevance to cycling is that they are (in general) highly competent racing cyclists - as good as the people they're simpering at - who are relegated to a position as dolly-birds because there isn't the money in professional cycling for women as there is in professional cycling for men.

OK, so that's something I didn't know.
So why isn't there the money in Women's cycling?

 

[Monsieur Remings]

You don't need to rehash any more I understand your view. It's that I don't agree (yet)with the detracting from the sport bit.
I can't say that I remember any of the podium girls or flower-presenters of most kinds of events, podium girls/guys/dignitaries/goats whatever don't impact my view of women and their achievements in sport.

And please don't patronise me about not knowing what women in cycling are a part of, having spent a lot of effort in supporting and growing womens cycling locally. First women-only ride of the season this morning.

I'm not patronising you FF.

Fair play for your efforts locally (and that's not meant as condescending either).

I stand by my points made earlier; that's all.

 

[Fab Foodie]

No you haven't missed anything and I've tried to say that's the case FF.
Perhaps you are lacking the connection between a sport which on the one hand has within its ranks many excellent female riders and the same sport that denigrates all women in one pointless act, achieving nothing but stereotyping...

...are you happy with that in the sport you love? I'm not, especially given its pointlessness when the same sport is trying to bring in more women to the sport. Those efforts - bringing in more women to the sport - may become pointless given this ridiculous, archaic act. That is all.
And is it really worth it?

Well I missed that apparently Podium girls are pro female cyclists.
Yes I'm lacking the connection between excellence in female cycling and pretty girls handing-out flowers.
Yes, I'm lacking the connection that podium girls denigrate all women, but I see the argument.
I'm not entirely happy with the sport I love. Race radios should be banned and I agree that womens Cycling needs greater coverage and funding, but I don't agree with your assertion that this is in any way due to podium girls.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm not patronising you FF.

Fair play for your efforts locally (and that's not meant as condescending either).

I stand by my points made earlier; that's all.

No worries, for now we'll have to agree to disagree, though I'm willing to be swayed.

 

[Monsieur Remings]

Well I missed that apparently Podium girls are pro female cyclists.
Yes I'm lacking the connection between excellence in female cycling and pretty girls handing-out flowers.
Yes, I'm lacking the connection that podium girls denigrate all women, but I see the argument.
I'm not entirely happy with the sport I love. Race radios should be banned and I agree that womens Cycling needs greater coverage and funding, but I don't agree with your assertion that this is in any way due to podium girls.

I'm not so sure they are Fab Foodie, probably for the same reason that so many of us on here think it 'wrong' for want of a better word.

Wouldn't Victoria Pendleton and the many other women professionals both past and present consider themselves denigrated by being podium girls as opposed what they actually are/were?

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm not so sure they are Fab Foodie, probably for the same reason that so many of us on here think it 'wrong' for want of a better word.

Wouldn't Victoria Pendleton and the many other women professionals both past and present consider themselves denigrated by being podium girls as opposed what they actually are/were?

You mean this Victoria Pendleton?

 

[SlipperySquid]

You mean this Victoria Pendleton?
View attachment 21998

See, the poor woman can't even afford a decent pair of tights

 

[Radchenister]

Was going to wide birth this thread but can't resist saying blimey Fab Foodie, you were worried I've associated myself with YOU by liking your posts and you're now posting pics of actual scantily clad female cyclist 'role models' (pun?) .

Blows my call for tolerence, perspective, moderate liberalism and empathy for all points of view straight out the water .

 

[Crankarm]

No. The solution is even more childishly simple. Which is just as well, given the standard of argument you are advancing.

So please enlighten us with your childish simple solution.

 

[Buddfox]

Well I missed that apparently Podium girls are pro female cyclists.
Yes I'm lacking the connection between excellence in female cycling and pretty girls handing-out flowers.
Yes, I'm lacking the connection that podium girls denigrate all women, but I see the argument.
I'm not entirely happy with the sport I love. Race radios should be banned and I agree that womens Cycling needs greater coverage and funding, but I don't agree with your assertion that this is in any way due to podium girls.

I have found following the Twitter feed @everydaysexism quite informative for getting real life examples of these sorts of things. Eye opening (actually shocking and utterly depressing)...

 

[Crankarm]

You mean this Victoria Pendleton?
View attachment 21998

Eughhh! Guaranteed to lead to an exessive level of testosterone and a possible ban for doping.

How come she was on your bed or you hers FF???

 

[Crankarm]

Carry on you might knock yourself permanently unconscious.

 

[tigger]

and to put it bluntly are about as funny as cancer.

You're definitely not putting it mildly!

 

[Crankarm]

The problem is that we don't live (or ride, or watch racing) in a world consisting of an undifferentiated soup of opinions, but in a world with real power relations which are both reflected and reinforced by representations, and in which ideas conflict and some prevail, and it matters which ones. Podium "girls" don't cause women's cycling to be disadvantaged in comparison to men's, and they don't cause men to subject women to unwanted sexual attention, but the Podium Girls convention arises from the same attitudes towards and beliefs about women that do cause these things. It's not about my view - it's a question of what podium girls mean, and whether it is possible to have a serious commitment to equality whilst simultaneously perpetuating such meanings. A male cyclist cannot pose with a podium "girl" without endorsing (inadvertently or otherwise) the idea that she is an ornament and accessory to his success, without appropriating her body as an object to be looked at and judged in the context of his power, without suggesting that she is part of the prize. It isn't optional or properly consensual on either side - it is expected that men who win races will participate in this ritual. So we are not talking about views, we are talking about the right for successful males to be symbolically awarded women as prizes, versus the right of women not to be demeaned and objectified for the benefit of men. There's simply no justification for it in any context which claims to value equality. You know this, which is why you would organise prize-giving differently. The Olympic ceremony, as you say, recognised this, so why should we not demand the same of professional cycling?

I'm not sure I understand your last point. Sexism describes the phenomenon that society is ordered in ways that systematically disadvantage women and confer advantage upon men. By definition it doesn't have a reverse or equivalent. I may be getting the wrong end of the stick...

I've a sneaking suspicion theclaude has a latent desire to be a podium girl.

 

[theclaud]

Was going to wide birth this thread but can't resist saying blimey Fab Foodie, you were worried I've associated myself with YOU by liking your posts and you're now posting pics of actual scantily clad female cyclist 'role models' (pun?) .

Blows my call for tolerence, perspective, moderate liberalism and empathy for all points of view straight out the water .

There's a context for what Foodie posted - it illuminated the content of his post. You are simply wrong to associate criticism of the podium girls convention with Mary-Whitehouse moralism. It has nothing whatever to do with a distaste for female sexuality. Quite the opposite, in fact.