Police Caution

[purplepolly]

I was 17... had a VW Beetle and bought a Vauxhall Nova 1.3SR 3 days before going to Cornwall for a surf festival. didn't have the Nova Taxed so used the tax disk from my beetle!

Fraud!

The youth of yesterday

However I think that under 21s should be let off their first feet-on-seat offence, serious though it is, young people will always makes make mistakes and then often mend their ways.

 

[Bman]

Really!?

What's wrong with Mike?

 

[Norm]

Really!?

What's wrong with Mike?

Absolutely nothing, I'm listening to the boy Skinner right now, in fact. After all, Geezers need excitement, etc etc

 

[rich p]

FWIW, I think a caution is OTT myself for such a 'crime' but I have to laugh at PaulB complaining about generalisation when he started a thread about Lancashire being better than Yorkshire

 

[mr_cellophane]

I wish C2C would have more staff checking out "feet on seats", phones and MP3 players in the quiet zone. I have lost count of the number of time I have got on a half empty train and had to hunt around for a seat that didn't have someone's feet on it or wasn't next to someone's feet.
I suspect that most people who cause disturbances on trains also show their lack of respect by putting their feet on seats.

 

[yenrod]

Today i was traveling from liverpool to Chester, a short train journey operated by Mersey Rail. My friend and i both put a foot up on the opposite seat, just on the very edge, not touching the actual fabric. We were then approached by 3 burley security guards who informed us it was a "cautionable" offense. We both apologised and told them we didn't know anything about this law (turns out Mersey Rail are the only company who enforce this) They then took all of our details including hair colour, clothes, address, phone number, date of birth etc We will get a letter from them and will be issued with a police caution, if we don't accept that we will have to go to court.
I am still in shock, it is not exactly the crime of the century, we both apologised and should at least get a warning before we are burdened with a Criminal Record? Or surely a fixed penalty would be more appropriate? A Police caution is on your record for the rest of your life!

Dark' - did you not hear about the case of the trainee teacher that nearly lost her career over this ? Merseyrail lost that case and she got off by the skin of her ass.

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT TRY IT ON WITH MERSEYRAIL's security gaurds as they will win - either way.

 

[Crankarm]

Well maybe after only being out of school for a while people need a warning that such a harsh penalty can come of such a act?
I just can't understand why this requires a caution whilst a speeding ticket can be sorted in one payment, where an actual life may be at risk.

I think these security guards have succeeded in their aim of sh1tting you up. Their treatment of you was the CAUTION. They probably had a good laugh in the pub/cafe after. I feel it highly unlikely you'll receive a police caution. Anyway I think you can only receive a police caution for an arrestable offence, and as ignorant, unhygenic, and selfish as putting one's feet on the seats of public transport is, I don't think it is an arrestable offence. I would hope that Merseyside police or BTP have far more serious things and priorities to be occupying their time, but never say never. As for collecting your details and description of appearance to be retained on a databse, I would question whether this was proportionate given that such and offence would normally and reasonably incur an on the spot fine of say £80. Do Mersey Rail stickers prohibiting feet on seats give the penalty for contravening the rule? I would ask for their reasons for retaining yours and others details, etc. I would also contact the Office of the Informaton Commissioner for advice.

I would have refused to give these people my details, simply apologised profusely and if the police turned up or were waiting at the next stop, re-iterated my apology, and let the police decide if they were going to caution me. As much as I agree you shouldn't have had your shoes anywhere near the seats the way you were dealt with sounds fundamentally disproportionate. But then again I haven't travelled on a train in years and certainly not on Mersey Rail. The last train journey I made coming back from London some one had vomitted across three rows of seats on a previous journey. The smell was rank, but people were still sitting next to it like lemmings. I changed carriages.

I think a police caution is spent after 5 years.

DON'T EVER PUT YOUR FEET/SHOES ON SEATS EVER AGAIN.

 

[darkstar]

Yeh i think it's fair to say i defiantly wont be doing it again. i've had chance to chill out now and think about it, sorry if i got a bit irate earlier, think i have just about doubled my post count in this thread alone!
A caution isn't the end of the world, not planning to become a teacher and out of all the countries in the world, America is not anywhere near the top of my priorities tbh! I'll learn from this and move on.

 

[vernon]

Dark' - did you not hear about the case of the trainee teacher that nearly lost her career over this ? Merseyrail lost that case and she got off by the skin of her ass.

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT TRY IT ON WITH MERSEYRAIL's security gaurds as they will win - either way.

The trainee teacher didn't nearly lose her job.

She wasn't even a trainee teacher. She was a 19 year old maths undergraduate who thought that she might like to teach after graduating and thought, erroneously, that a criminal conviction would prevent her from training to become a teacher.

 

[domd1979]

Crankarm- suggest you google railway byelaws (on DfT website) before posting. The collecting of personal details and penalties is all covered.

 

[PBancroft]

It needs more than just asking nicely. If the security guards on Merseyrail just asked, people would take their feet off the seat until they were out of sight. Taking enforcement action means they probably won't do it again unless particularly daft...

+1

I used to work in a library and asking people to be quiet was honestly part of the job, and horrid it was too. Along with reminding people there was to be no eating, looking at pr0n, that kind of thing.

I was strict and forceful, and it worked every time.

Until I was three feet away.

 

[PBancroft]

I was 17... had a VW Beetle and bought a Vauxhall Nova 1.3SR 3 days before going to Cornwall for a surf festival. didn't have the Nova Taxed so used the tax disk from my beetle!

Fraud!

Fingerprints and photo's (although probably more to scare me) and a night in the cells (was pissed when they arrested me).

Well, I guess they got you good and proper. Now, making the assumption that you've not been convicted or cautioned with anything since, I'd have to say this proves one of two things.

Either...

A. Police action can be a useful deterrent and educate people in the rights and wrongs of everyday life.

B. You've got better at it and not got caught lately.

 

[Cubist]

I apologise i am in shock after coming across the police for the first time in my life.

You haven't come across the police though have you! You have had your name and address taken by some rail staff.

You haven't had a police caution. In order to receive one of those you need to be dealt with by a police officer, agree to a caution, and then your photo, fingerprints and dna will be taken, and your details added to the police national computer. . You will be in no doubt that you have received a caution. You haven't yet, so FFS stop whining.

Oh, and keep your feet off the seats.

 

[PaulB]

YOU SIMPLY DO NOT TRY IT ON WITH MERSEYRAIL's security gaurds as they will win - either way.

Unless you are in a gang or are "hard looking". Then the "security guards" will not come anywhere near you and you can do as you please. If you are a normal, relatively law-abiding person and commit some minor misdemeanour, then you can be sure these tough "security guards" will be all over you like a cheap suit.

 

[Wigsie]

Well, I guess they got you good and proper. Now, making the assumption that you've not been convicted or cautioned with anything since, I'd have to say this proves one of two things.

Either...

A. Police action can be a useful deterrent and educate people in the rights and wrongs of everyday life.

B. You've got better at it and not got caught lately.

Not convicted or given official written cautions since (plenty of verbal ones mind ). I knew it was wrong but my parents said i could not take my new car unless the insurance document arrived and I got a tax disc, so I did it, hoping I wouldnt get caught... And I probably wouldnt if I had not been pissed out my face and asked the copper if I would get charged for drunk driving for opening my car and getting somethng out the boot (was 2am).
He started talking and obviously sneakily checkig over the car.

ooops!