Police stopping cyclists in Preston

[vickster]

As someone who has just had a BikeRegister marked bike stolen, I'd be more than happy for the tea-leaf to be stopped and the bike checked over Don't expect the bike to show up otherwise

 

[Chris-H]

I think you might be reading the Daily Wail to often!

"BCS interviews showed that the risk of being a victim of crime in the year ending September 2010
was 21.4 per cent. This level of risk of being a victim of crime remains at a 30-year low."


Home Office Statistical Bulletin 02/11 Crime in England and Wales: Quarterly Update to September 2010

Not in the slightest,my point was not that we are all victims of crime but more that we all have to bear the cost of crime so to speak and part of that "cost" is to surely aid the police when and where we can without moaning about it.

 

[Cubist]

They don't, they just need to threat of doing so to force questions to be answered.

I have reached a point where I don't believe any further debate is beneficial. I'm genuinely sorry you fear the police and tactics to the degree that you do. I don't think anything I type on here will change that. I'm sorry.

 

[Crankarm]

I'm coming away from the wall quickly to make a point regarding this, I'm hoping I don't lose my space there as its filling in fast.

Dummy 'bait' bikes sounds a great idea doesn't it. Someone else mentioned it earlier too, with a sensible suggestion of a GPS tracker. Problem is, this would count as a covert operation. We have to take into account the 'human rights' of gaining personal information of the thief by sneakily watching him in this way, and therefore it's not an operation you can just set up. It would require applications and authorisations by a Superintendant, or possibly even a Chief Constable depending on exactly what tech you were going to use. The application is lengthy and difficult to complete. You'd have to be able to show that the officer running the observation was specially trained, which few of us are.

I'll leave you all to form your own conclusions on why we are in the situation where a relatively simple and effective operation like a bait bike is so difficult to set up.

Now I'm going back to banging my head against that wall - I've ordered pies and a greasy fry up to be delivered there and don't want to miss it.

So to avoid infringing the 'uman rights of bike thieves and other "undesireables" the police prefer the premise that all cyclists are potential bike thieves and therefore treat them as such unless they can prove other wise. A not so inconsequential reversal of the legal principal operated for hundreds of years that one is assumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law which goes for bike thieves as well. Nice to know how the police view the general public and more specificly cyclists. I object to being viewed by the police as a potential bike thief simply for going about my lawful business. If I was unable to establish to "their satisfaction" that I owned my bike or any other property, then having it confiscated and me charged with theft I would feel extremely aggrieved. One cannot steal one's own property. I would love there to be a test case because the fuzz had been over officious and the CPS just plain stupid just so any prosecution brought about by their daft initiative could be laughed out of court. It is one thing catching criminals in the act which I am all for, but to harass the rest of us going about our lawful buisness because plods don't have the wit to catch criminals is a step too far IMHO. What if bike thieves get wise and start wearing cycling clothing - lycra or Pro Team kit will they start confiscating bikes from pretty much all cyclists and throwing riders in the their cells who couldn't establish they had legal title to their bikes? How about only targetting cyclists who aren't wearing a helmet and aren't wearing hi viz yellow?

When my Brompton was stolen the police didn't want to know. They weren't interested. It took endless calls to even get a crime number out of them, but fortunately dealing with my insurers was a doddle compared to the fuzz. My premium went up slightly though :~(.

I remember an initiative launched by the MET last year or the year before in the wake of the terrorist threat. It was ecouraging people to report neighbours or properties in their communities where the curtains were always drawn and where the occupants were considered secretive or came and went from the property at strange times ....... so they must be terrorists. I think this "initiative" was quickly withdrawn.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

I have reached a point where I don't believe any further debate is beneficial. I'm genuinely sorry you fear the police and tactics to the degree that you do. I don't think anything I type on here will change that. I'm sorry.

I had come to that conclusion a long time ago, but thank you for your time spent trying to reassure me.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

So to avoid infringing the 'uman rights of bike thieves and other "undesireables" the police prefer the premise that all cyclists are potential bike thieves and therefore treat them as such unless they can prove other wise. A not so inconsequential reversal of the legal principal operated for hundreds of years that one is assumed innocent unless proven guilty in a court of law which goes for bike thieves as well. Nice to know how the police view the general public and more specificly cyclists. I object to being viewed by the police as a potential bike thief simply for going about my lawful business.

Wot 'E said!

 

[snorri]

the police prefer the premise that all cyclists are potential bike thieves and therefore treat them as such unless they can prove other wise.

With an opening line like that, I doubt the rest of your post is worth reading. Unless you can explain what has led to that view?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Not in the slightest,my point was not that we are all victims of crime but more that we all have to bear the cost of crime so to speak and part of that "cost" is to surely aid the police when and where we can without moaning about it.

You stated that crime was at an all time high! It isn't. As for a presumed duty to help the police, I expect very little from them ( and save myself disaponintment) and and in return don't feel much need to aid them.

 

[Crankarm]

Indeed. My question was to you. You have not answered it, merely engaged in what appears to be paranoid rhetoric

I'll make it clear

"Why do you think the police want to confiscate your bike?"

I refer you to my above points and the presumption by the police that unless some one in possession of a bike can establish that they are the legal owner of it then the bicycle must be stolen, either by the person riding it, or the rider has been handling stolen goods.

If the police are just on a chancer then they should bog off. However, if they have specific information that a Trek road bike, Madone 5.2, blue, size medium, frame number xxxxxx with blue handle bar tape, SPD pedals, scratch to the top tube, red and black tyres has been reported stolen and you are unfortunately riding it, then this would seem to me to be a reasonable reason for stopping the rider and requesting them to produce evidence that they genuinely owned the bike and how they came by it.

But to simply dream up their own criteria of what looks suspicious and whether some one looks like a bike thief or is riding a stolen bike is not the way forward. the police have fallen into this trap many times before where their prejudices have led to false allegations, false imprisonment or miscarriages of justice.

 

[Norm]

I refer you to my above points and the presumption by the police that unless some one in possession of a bike can establish that they are the legal owner of it then the bicycle must be stolen, either by the person riding it, or the rider has been handling stolen goods.

However, as your "above points" had no basis in fact, repeating them gives them even less credibility.

But to simply dream up their own criteria of what looks suspicious and whether some one looks like a bike thief or is riding a stolen bike is not the way forward. the police have fallen into this trap many times before where their prejudices have led to false allegations, false imprisonment or miscarriages of justice.

Hmm... "dreaming up your own criteria" seems to be an appropriate comment from someone who considers that the police have approached this with a presumption of guilt.

 

[Mugshot]

what I've learnt from this thread is that some people choose to live in a police state whilst the rest of us happily don't.

Having read through this thread opened mouthed ^^^^This sums it up beautifully for me, thank you Monty.

However, despite the vitriol flowing so freely through this thread I was most distrurbed and disappointed by CopperCyclists' comment

I've ordered pies and a greasy fry up to be delivered there and don't want to miss it.

I thought you only ate doughnuts

 

[GFamily]

Hmmm - how to you 'prove' ownership of a bike, unless you've bought it from a bike shop and have kept the receipt. I built my bike up from bits, and would be hard pushed to find any documentary evidence now.

I can undo the combination lock on mine - which is more than anyone else claiming ownership would be able to do.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

However, as your "above points" had no basis in fact, repeating them gives them even less credibility.

Hmm... "dreaming up your own criteria" seems to be an appropriate comment from someone who considers that the police have approached this with a presumption of guilt.

Unfortunately I think that's an occupational hazard, forced upon the police by the people they meet. Don't forget that the police get to meet and deal with the scum that the rest of us stay well clear of ,after repeated and prolonged exposure to that sort of influence, it's no wonder they start to get jaded.

 

[screenman]

I would like to see total road blocks like they do in France where all vehicles are stopped and the drivers checked for everything from insurance to drink, now I am sure many cyclists would like that also.

 

[Norm]

[QUOTE 1576708"] Is there a similar initiative to 'prevent car crime'? Numptys. [/quote] Yes, there are quite a few of them. I've been stopped a couple of times in such checks, although the last was, admittedly, with the accompaniment of tanks and all sorts as it was when there were allegations of a terrorist missile strike at Heathrow.

Anyway, of more general relevance, such "similar initiatives" include ANPR. Although I wonder if some would suggest covering their number plates rather than being checked.