Police stopping cyclists in Preston

[dellzeqq]

Careful, R v Connelly is to do with a (completely unlawful) arrest of someone who refused to explain what they were doing in an area of give any details. It's a bit different to suspecting a bike is stolen, and then the rider adds to that suspicion by refusing to give any details.

And for the liberal ones who are starting to panic, chill. No one is going to haul you away to the nick and your bike away to the police station just because you can't prove you own it. I couldn't prove ownership of mine either. The absolute MOST that would likely be done is note made of the bike you were riding and your details in case it was reported stolen later - and that really is the most, I suspect most members of the public will simply be cycling by. The operation sounds like a decent, proactive op and as a cyclist, I'd welcome it.

Sigh. Go on, I'm ready now. Let loose with the police state posts, the arguments of your right to not be hassled, and basically all the other complaints that some people tend to love using - until the moment they actually become a victim of crime.

would it be fair to suggest that they're hoping that somebody will come up with some obviously nonsense story and then use that as a springboard for an investigation?

I've been asked for proof of ownership, and all I could offer was the telephone number of a bike shop. They seemed happy with that.

 

[Arch]

Colleague of mine was stopped at York station, by a couple of coppers, who wanted to prove his bike was his. Their reasoning was that he appeared out of nowhere (he'd been crouching down by the bike locking it), and seemed to have been fiddling with the lock for a while (he was trying to get a decent locking position, and the key is stiff). They believed him in the end, but he had to unlock the bike for them (proving nothing, if he'd stolen the keys and bike together in a burglary, or simply stolen the bike and bought his own lock). He reckoned that fact that he was wearing a hooded top had something to do with it. And in the course of all this, he missed the train he was aiming for, which was annoying.

I have no receipts for any of my bikes, and only two are security marked - a process for which I had to produce no documentation. So it's hard to see how the police can tell you're telling the truth unless you really can't say without looking what colour it is or something, and it wouldn't take long to memorise a few features.

 

[Alun]

Do we want the police to take action on bike theft or not?

 

[CopperCyclist]

would it be fair to suggest that they're hoping that somebody will come up with some obviously nonsense story and then use that as a springboard for an investigation?

Nah. Most likely they have a list of recent easily identifiable stolen bikes, and they are looking for those primarily. Secondly they are likely looking for all of the 'known faces' - the ones that we know are out there burgling your houses, but tha we can't do a lot about until we actually catch them doing it - hoping to record whatever bike they are riding on, and then if a bike of this model is later reported stolen, then arrest them at a later date.

I stress I'm guessing here. I'm have no actual knowledge of this exact op, I'm just giving you my educated guess on what the aim/brief would be for it.

 

[PK99]

On the one hand we have threads here and elsewhere: "My bike was nicked and the effing police would not do a damn thing about it" followed by me-too bleats that the effing police should show more interest and DO SOMETHING!

On the other hand we have a thread about the police trying to do something about bike theft and we have bleats by cyclists about being persecuted.

Make yer feckin minds up!

 

[wiggydiggy]

I'm happy to be stopped any time by PC Plod, I have been before when one mistook my menthol cigarette for something a bit stronger

And reminding myself years back when walking back from an LBS with 2 tyres, a panda car pulled over and quizzed me where I'd got them. The shop was my bemused reply lol

No harm no foul

 

[User482]

Just so long as they don't arrest anyone on suspicion of possessing an offensive wife...

[media]

]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y[/media]

 

[Arch]

Do we want the police to take action on bike theft or not?

I think the thing is that we'd like them to show an interest when bikes are actually stolen, (or indeed cyclists knocked down), when there is a perception (possibly wrong) that not much is done. Also, although many of us are probably not going to be targetted by the police, we're aware that we can often no more prove we own our bikes than we can prove we own the clothes we're wearing.

I'm sure the Preston police are being discriminating (in a positive sense) when they stop cyclists. If they stopped all those who transgressed traffic rules for example, then those of us who are law abiding wouldn't worry so much!

On the other hand if I missed a train because of being stopped for doing nothing, like my colleague, I'd be pretty pissed off. I better watch out, I'm wearing a hoodie today!

 

[PedAntics]

On the one hand we have threads here and elsewhere: "My bike was nicked and the effing police would not do a damn thing about it" followed by me-too bleats that the effing police should show more interest and DO SOMETHING!

On the other hand we have a thread about the police trying to do something about bike theft and we have bleats by cyclists about being persecuted.

Make yer feckin minds up!

+1 . Who'd be a copper, can't win either way IMHO.

 

[Nigeyy]

This does seem to open up the question of how you prove the bike is yours (if people are similar to me, then it would be very hard to prove any of my bikes are mine). Without even going into the Police State thing:

Perhaps it's being overlooked that it's not so much the proof -but the reaction and kind of story proffered that the police are looking for. I'm sure if some people did steal bikes some of the stories would be immediately suspicious.

But is this the best use of police time? Wouldn't it be easier and more selective to just put a gps signal in a bike, leave it locked up (should a poor lock be used here?) and then track it if it moves? Eventually some undesirable will try to steal it I'm sure. Or what about promoting better locking technique and better style locks? Encourage businesses to provide safer areas to store bikes?

Edit: should say I appreciate the effort for bike theft by the police, and I don't mean it as a put down of them at all, I just wonder if this is the most efficient best value way to go about it.

 

[snorri]

and despite reports from london (and elsewhere) of thieves dressing like cyclist to avoid detection the

I get this vision of a thief leaving his house in lycra, helmet, goggles and gloves each morning, wandering around town all day raising suspicion everywhere he goes........ until the moment he pinches a bike and cycles home.

IGMC

 

[MontyVeda]

And to each would be the same answer. "Mind your own business", with various levels of doppler shift as I pedal into the distance.

I would object to being stopped by the police for random questioning if I was on a bike , in a car, mBike, lorry , on foot or in a train. For those that whitter "What have you got to hide?" I would point out that as an innocent man I would expect to be able to make any journey without having to answer questions asked by the police.

And if you bore a passing resemblance to man the police were looking for in your area would you still object to spending a brief moment of your life answering a couple of questions?

Or alternatively, as a victim of a crime and you supply a partial description to the police. eg. about six foot high, wearing a dark top and white baseball cap... would you object to the police stopping 3 or 4 people who fit that description before they finally 'get 'em'?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

And if you bore a passing resemblance to man the police were looking for in your area would you still object to spending a brief moment of your life answering a couple of questions?

Yes, I'm innocent. I have no need to have my time wasted.


On the other hand would you object to the police coming to your door and asking you to prove that you lived there, all in the name of reducing burglary?

Or maybe being patted down as you left a shop, to reduce shoplifting?

 

[diapason]

And if you bore a passing resemblance to man the police were looking for in your area would you still object to being shot dead as you sat minding your own business on the Tube?

Bold italics my amendment

 

[MontyVeda]

Yes, I'm innocent. I have no need to have my time wasted.
...

and a police officer would know that how?

On the other hand would you object to the police coming to your door and asking you to prove that you lived there, all in the name of reducing burglary?

Or maybe being patted down as you left a shop, to reduce shoplifting?

does this happen in your neck of the woods?


edit... ps. you failed to respond to my 2nd point:

"Or alternatively, as a victim of a crime and you supply a partial description to the police. eg. about six foot high, wearing a dark top and white baseball cap... would you object to the police stopping 3 or 4 people who fit that description before they finally 'get 'em'?"

how do you feel about the police randomly stopping other people in order to solve a crime?