Police stopping cyclists in Preston

[wiggydiggy]

Good , the more people there are over "there" banging their heads, the less are cheering on the police whilst they randomly stop cyclists,motorists,teenagers,blacks,jews,people they don't like the look of, people who have been lippy in the past, people whose politics the Daily Wail doesn't like ....( Pick your favourite)

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionist,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jew,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

​

Pastor Niemoller


If the police want to target cycle crime they need to target the criminals, not randomly stop innocent people.

Did you just do that? Did you just compare the words and feelings of a man who grew up in pre WWII Nazi Germany and who was talking about purges against groups of people and the lack of action by people as these went on?

Sweet baby jesus and the little children you're not suggesting that as cyclists we are being persecuted and need to actually flee the country?

Look I'm a leftie, I'd go as far to say I'm a socialist but I cant agree with you here. If the issue was the police were grabbing cyclist off the streets and taking them for processing to determine ownership then fine, that passage is relevent.

But being stopped and asked a couple questions, fine.

Before you go any further, answer me this:

If you want the police to actually be able to solve crime, how do you expect them to do that without actually speaking to people?

 

[MacB]

Yes, yes, but all you need is one police officer rather less fair-minded than Cubist, and we have a problem. Remember that they only need a "reasonable suspicion" which would be a pretty good cover for discriminatory or over-zealous behaviour.

As I said I'm in two minds but I don't see that further 'them and us' style reinforcement is ever going to help. I think there needs to be give and take both ways and some serious efforts around reintegrating the police with the rest of society. Do we need a multiple tier force like they have in the US? National for the big stuff, regional and then local forces run by elected 'sheriffs'?

 

[Sheffield_Tiger]

One small question.

How can the police tell who is a criminal, and who is Little Yellow Brompton et al without stopping them and asking them to account for themselves? ?

Hmm

That does sound a bit like the more succinct

"Papieren, Bitte!"

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Hmm

That does sound a bit like the more succinct

"Papieren, Bitte!"

And eventually even the "please" will disapear! :-(

 

[wiggydiggy]

And eventually even the "please" will disapear! :-(

Just make sure when they wish you luck on your way you dont answer in english

Seriously come on LYB, stop being such a cynical old goat. The mistakes of the past will not be allowed to be repeated.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Did you just do that? Did you just compare the words and feelings of a man who grew up in pre WWII Nazi Germany and who was talking about purges against groups of people and the lack of action by people as these went on?

Sweet baby jesus and the little children you're not suggesting that as cyclists we are being persecuted and need to actually flee the country?

Look I'm a leftie, I'd go as far to say I'm a socialist but I cant agree with you here. If the issue was the police were grabbing cyclist off the streets and taking them for processing to determine ownership then fine, that passage is relevent.

But being stopped and asked a couple questions, fine.

Before you go any further, answer me this:

If you want the police to actually be able to solve crime, how do you expect them to do that without actually speaking to people?

The problem isn't of police speaking to people, it is one of the police randomly detaining people, and asking them to account for their property , under threat of confirscation of their property if the police are not satisfied with the answers. Take out the random, the insistance on accounting and the confirscation and I would have no problem.Of course, talking to every cyclist , allowing them not to answer and not threatening them wouldn't be quite as effective...

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Just make sure when they wish you luck on your way you dont answer in english

Seriously come on LYB, stop being such a cynical old goat. The mistakes of the past will not be allowed to be repeated.

What's the price of Liberty?


BTW if you do answer in English, when you leg it, don't shimmy left/right in the street!

 

[Zoiders]

What's the price of Liberty?


BTW if you do answer in English, when you leg it, don't shimmy left/right in the street!

I think your argument is "how dare you suspect me as I am a middle class graduate"

If you fitted a description of a suspect becuase of your manner of dress, height and build then it's perfectly reasonable for you to be stopped and asked a few questions - equating that however with the old sus laws is shrill posturing and fairly offensive to those who really did suffer under them.

 

[Nigeyy]

No... god no. Please no.

Do we need a multiple tier force like they have in the US? National for the big stuff, regional and then local forces run by elected 'sheriffs'?

 

[Cubist]

Yes, yes, but all you need is one police officer rather less fair-minded than Cubist, and we have a problem. Remember that they only need a "reasonable suspicion" which would be a pretty good cover for discriminatory or over-zealous behaviour.

I'm flattered User482, but trust me I'm NOT atypical!!!

What I'm struggling with here is the (almost) assumption that an over zealous cop will want to use this initiative to arrest someone who fails to account for his bike, and then confiscate it.

Let's just try and put a scenario together,

"Hello sir, can I just ask you a question or two about your funny little yellow folding bicycle?"

"F*ck you and the horse you rode in on."

"Is it your bike sir?"

"It was when I was climbing off your Mother, now leave me alone you oppressive agent of the state you."

"Would you mind changing down a gear Sir, I'm struggling to keep up with you what with all this safety equipment I'm wearing."


Followed by arrest and impounding of bicycle because the officer "suspects it to be stolen."

The scene now moves to the custody suite at Toytown police station where the arresting officer explains to the custody officer that the person he is holding was locked up because he thought the bike might be stolen.

"And is it? Have you found any reports of stolen yellow folders?"

"No Sarge"

"In that case let him go, and dust him down while you're at it."

 

[Cubist]

In case anyone is wondering, part of the point I'm trying to make is that in any such situation a colleague or supervisor is quickly going to intervene and tell the over zealous officer to stop being a c*nt.

Making arrests for their own sake, only to have them thrown out by the custody officer, and the arrestee busy making a claim for false imprisonment via the civil claims department does not score any brownie points. The days of arrest to hit targets left us some 5 years ago.

 

[User482]

I'm flattered User482, but trust me I'm NOT atypical!!!

Um, if you'd bothered to read my posts properly, you'd know that I hadn't argued otherwise. Surely you must admit that there are one or two police officers with questionnable attitudes? In which case, it doesn't take much imagination to envisage a scenario in whicg this policy could be abused.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[PK99]

Um, if you'd bothered to read my posts properly, you'd know that I hadn't argued otherwise. Surely you must admit that there are one or two police officers with questionnable attitudes? In which case, it doesn't take much imagination to envisage a scenario in whicg this policy could be abused.

That's all I'm saying.

that is an argument for never putting any police on the streets ever!

 

[Silver Fox]

Um, if you'd bothered to read my posts properly, you'd know that I hadn't argued otherwise. Surely you must admit that there are one or two police officers with questionnable attitudes? In which case, it doesn't take much imagination to envisage a scenario in whicg this policy could be abused.

That's all I'm saying.

Good and bad in all walks of life User482, even if it's only a tiny minority. The police do more than the public realise to root out the bad apples, infact they can be quite ruthless with their own.

 

[MontyVeda]

... Surely you must admit that there are one or two police officers with questionable attitudes? In which case, it doesn't take much imagination to envisage a scenario in which this policy could be abused.

That's all I'm saying.

This is true, however there's a lot of people in general with questionable attitudes, which is why we have a police force service in the first place.