Pro-helmet article on BBC One Show right now

[summerdays]

this is the same bloke who suggest we shouldnt wear seat belts as it increases the likelihood of having an accident due to increased confidence, i think thats rubbish. if we apply that theory to everything we should get rid of air bags, safety barriers, stop signs, pavements, safety goggles etc etc

same type of theory that suggests we should legalise drugs as that will take away the thrill and nobody will take them

liek allowing guns for protection, thats worked in the US hasnt it

i could go on

I think there is evidence that things like seat belts, air bags and other improvements in car safety have changed drivers perception of danger and how they behave. You will often see comments on CC suggesting the air bag be replaced with a metal spike - all those improvements have served to increase the confidence of the driver or reduce their perception of danger.

 

[Rebel Ian]

Because the concept that you can make an informed choice is very very silly!

Listen to your betters and stop being a very, very naughty boy!

Thanks for the clarification. I don't know what i was thinking beliving I was capable of independent thought and decision making. I hope everyone will accept my apologies.

 

[MarkF]

this is the same bloke who suggest we shouldnt wear seat belts as it increases the likelihood of having an accident due to increased confidence, i think thats rubbish.

I don't. I used to crash my motorbike, regularly, it was having a negative impact on my family and earning capacity. My injuries were limited to broken bones, fortunately, due to good quality leathers and armour. I felt pretty damn invincible I can tell you! That's why I rode recklessly.

I've ridden since 2001, motorbike and Vespa, without any protective gear (except my hlemet and I'd junk that if I could) and have had zero accidents. I am hyper aware of my vulnerability, for me, safety gear had a negative impact on my riding.

 

[pshore]

Would you not consider his actions of rowing across the Atlantic or walking to the south pole more dangerous and in turn more selfish to his family ?

I've been trying to pin down exactly where his crash was but I can only get it down to 'just outside Winslow, Arizona'.

Given that he was racing across America, I suspect he took the most direct route which is an interstate highway (dual carriageway). See Google Maps

If that is the road, then it is a very bad choice because it surely increases the danger to him. To me it's like entering a war zone and then arguing about the benefits of a tin helmet.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I've been trying to pin down exactly where his crash was but I can only get it down to 'just outside Winslow, Arizona'.

You sure it wasn't 'standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona, such a fine sight to see'?

 

[rich p]

You sure it wasn't 'standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona, such a fine sight to see'?

Here's the Eagles helmet. Philadelphia admittedly, not Arizona!

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Here's the Eagles helmet. Philadelphia admittedly, not Arizona!

Looking good rich, there's enough room behind that face guard so you can still sup your ale on the move!

 

[david k]

Actually, in the one case study that has been presented to date [I think it was New South Wales] my "amateur" research came up with this : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8870773 exactly, your research is a quick google

Been in too many of these helmet debates in the past but I am thoroughly sick of helmet evangelists telling me to wear one. Not sure the response I would get if I went round telling wearers to take them off. Its their right to wear one if they want to, as you are excersising your right to not wear one

There is a cafe not too far from here where a group of about a dozen old time cyclists gather each week. The youngest I would guess is mid 60's and the oldest mid to late 80's. I often sit and listen to their wonderful stories, between them they reckon they must have clocked up nearly 4 million miles worth emphasising you will agree. Not one of them wears a helmet, most of them raced and didn't wear them then either and none of them have ever had a serious head injury. I did ask them about a year ago why they didn't wear helmets and the only answer I got was "why"?
I apologise for this bit of yet more "amateur" research. Will try to do better. Notice anything about this picture? If they are that age then most of their cycling was from a different era, my father didnt wear seat belts, when there were no motorways and cars were slower. Using an example of possibly half a century ago shouldnt dictate modern advancements in safety.
Should I find a picture with people wearing helemts? would that convince you they should wear them? I presume not, so why do you feel a photo of people without them would convince me they are pointless?

i know people who have drove 1,000s of miles and never had an accident - why wear seat belts?
i know 1,000s of people who work off scaffolds and have never fallen to their deaths, why have hand rails?
i know people who havnt hit kids in the car - why have safety impact controls/measure on new cars?
i know 1000 of people who havnt dies from c02 poisening, why service boilers?
i can post a picture of fires that havnt been serviced in years and work fine, that should stop H&S enforcing lanlords to safety gas checks every year
and so on and so on......................................................................

Using examples of people who havnt fallen of their bikes to prove helmets are pointless. I know people who wear helmets who also havent died so does that mean everyone should wear one?

I am happy to listen to your views and even disagree but to use these poor arguments to attempt to pursuade people not to wear a safety measure will not hold any water with me, you may be able to convince others as they can make their own judgements. I hope that people make their own decisions for their own reasons, mine has remained the same despite these attempts to convince me otherwise

 

[david k]

I don't. I used to crash my motorbike, regularly, it was having a negative impact on my family and earning capacity. My injuries were limited to broken bones, fortunately, due to good quality leathers and armour. I felt pretty damn invincible I can tell you! That's why I rode recklessly.

I've ridden since 2001, motorbike and Vespa, without any protective gear (except my hlemet and I'd junk that if I could) and have had zero accidents. I am hyper aware of my vulnerability, for me, safety gear had a negative impact on my riding.

as i keep saying, using this logic would mean stopping all safety controls to make us more aware. leap of faith i think, people need protecting from theirselves. I also ride motorbikes and have been knocked off through no fault of my own, if i didnt wear safety gear i would be dead, i think that states my thought on this subject quite clearly

 

[yello]

I hope that people make their own decisions for their own reasons, mine has remained the same despite these attempts to convince me otherwise

It sounds like an admirable position to take.

I'm not sure people are trying to convince you to change your decision as such (no more, at least, than you are trying to change theirs), merely explaining on what basis they have reached their decisions.

For me, the veracity of the debate (from both sides) highlights to me that the science isn't precise, can be contradictory and is interpreted in a number of ways. So I conclude that you really are best to make your own mind up using whatever means you feel are best. Imho, there isn't a definitive answer. I simply don't feel you can, from the evidence and research available, conclude anything with any degree of certainty for all situations. It's a 'sometimes yes, sometimes no' depending on circumstances. You know the cycling you do, you know your attitude to risk, you know how you feel about any related issues - decide for yourself and let others do likewise.

 

[david k]

i agree yello, apart from....

people are trying to convince me that feeling better with a helmet on rather than off is wrong. I prefer to wear one, i feel better with one on, im an experienced H&S qualified construction worker so i know all about risk etc, im an experienced motorcycle rider so know about complying with legislation etc, im getting to be an experienced cyclist. I think I am in a good position to decide if wearing a helmet is right for me, its ok to feel better with it on (not necessarily means ill be reckless as everyone presume wearing a helmet means ill ride on a motorway without fear!) and ill wear one.

i do risk assessments daily. simply consider this, how likely is it ill fall off,, and if i do how serious is it likely to be. based on that info which could alter with each ride i make a decision on control measures. If its a ride to the shops, the likeyhood is less and therefore may not choose to wear a hat, or indeed get kitted out at all. if a long ride i will get fully kitted and take drinks and food, a simple consideration. It makes me feel better to have food, even though i may not use it, will it make me reckless with my navigating?

Ive aimed to make my arguments for based on my experience, if people do not agree then fine. If people make good arguments and choose not to wear then fine, but if people keep posting poor arguments against i will continue to contest them

 

[pshore]

Here's the Eagles helmet. Philadelphia admittedly, not Arizona!

PMSL. Very nice display of musical talent and susequent tangents. Admin! Can you rename this thread "Never Mind the Helmetcocks".

 

[MarkF]

as i keep saying, using this logic would mean stopping all safety controls to make us more aware. leap of faith i think, people need protecting from theirselves. I also ride motorbikes and have been knocked off through no fault of my own, if i didnt wear safety gear i would be dead, i think that states my thought on this subject quite clearly

Not really David, it shows that you are intransigent.

I said that saftey gear increased my accident ratio and eventually I realised why. No safety gear = no accidents, and I know why. It works for me, I'm not suggesting it would work for everybody.

 

[david k]

if thats your view i respect it, shame you cannot afford me the same coutesy

 

[Norm]

Ive aimed to make my arguments for based on my experience, if people do not agree then fine. If people make good arguments and choose not to wear then fine, but if people keep posting poor arguments against i will continue to contest them

Just to make it perfectly clear, I do nearly always wear a helmet and I will always support the freedom of choice. I was not intending to suggest that risk compensation is something that everyone does automatically, just that some people do it and it is subconscious so anyone who slips into the habit of wearing a helmet without thinking of the risks may be worse off.

I have yet to try cycling with a long wig underneath my helmet, to see how that affects the distance I am afforded by overtaking drivers.