Pro-helmet article on BBC One Show right now

[billy1561]

nowt to do with helmets, I'd pick apart any argument, offered up as factual, that is anything but. For example I can honestly say that I don't know, and cannot conceive of a way to prove, what the outcome of any given incident would have been had a helmet been worn/not worn. The pro helmet argument always boils down to the same thing:-

well, stand to reason doesn't it, hit bare head mucho hurty, hit cushioned/protected head then less hurty...end of case

this is often supported by such classics as, 'go and hit your head against a wall with a helmet and then without and tell me which ones hurts more', I could give more examples but they come down to the same crap.

I could as easily say, 'but I don't intend to hit my head against a wall, the ground or a car', and the response will be a 'what if' along the lines of better safe than sorry. But that ignores personal risk assessment, otherwise we'd all be foolish to leave the house without a helmet and, due to accidents around the home, should spend our lives wearing protective gear.

But what really gets my goat is the emotive embellishment that's indulged in by helmet evangelists(and probably evangelists of any nature) - as soon as I read 'I'd be dead/seriously injured but for my helmet' then the person has just blown their credibility. Then to further support this ludicrous position by using a bit of marketing blurb...yes Mr/Mrs X you'd be dead if it wasn't for our product, here have a freebie and make sure you tell everybody..... well my ghast just becomes truly flabbered

I'm absolutely convinced that i would have split my head open yesterday morning at 06:50am when i came off my bike but i think you don't particularly have an issue with the with or without helmet debate Mac? You think maybe i embellished my accident? Let me tell you it's painful and will be for some time.
Don't suppose you are in marketing as you seem to have an issue with the blurb of the aforementioned product? Virtually any product of any nature and the marketing team will inform us that the said product is the best thing on the market, it's the only way they can grow.
Mac, you seem like a decent guy reading your posts can we agree to disagree?
Billy.

 

[david k]

i always wear a helmet

1 - to set a good example to my kids, practice what i preach
2 - obvious reason, you stand better chance with than without
3- maybe not been mentioned before, it gives me more confidence when riding, weather this is substantiated or not, it does make me feel better

3 good reasons for me to wear my helmet

should it be law? i think it will be one day

 

[david k]

Hello there

It was my wife featured on the show (the lecturer who said that she'd probably be dead without the helmet). Sadly they cut what she had to say so the message didn't really come across. Mac, in her case it is not at all hard to conclude that she would have been far, far worse without the helmet. There was a rock on the road, about a centimetre and a half across, that made a big dent in the lid. Without the helmet I don't think anyone can doubt that it would have gone straight through the side of her skull, meaning that in addition to the other serious injuries she sustained she would have had a dirty depressed fracture in her skull, with lots of bits of bone and grit pushed into her brain. We were extremely lucky: the injuries she sustained should have left her in a hospital for the rest of her life as they were. Had she not worn a helmet I think she probably wouldn't have died, but the most likely outcome is that she wouldn't really have lived either.

Regarding the comment that it's selfish to ride without a helmet, well in my opinion that is true. Having been left coping with a toddler and a baby while my wife spent six weeks in a coma and then six further months in hospital, I can tell you that anyone who doesn't use simple and reasonable precautions to reduce the probability of their family members having to go through similar is indeed selfish. Of course, this depends on whether you think that wearing a helmet is a reasonable effort, and I can understand the argument if you think it's not - I know about the lack of real hard evidence either way on this question, and I agree about the eye-watering foolishness of the comment by the other lady about "forget about research" or whatever it was. Nonetheless, I disagree with you - just remember though that what you're risking isn't a clean death, it's spending the rest of your life having someone else wipe your bottom and not remembering who your children are or what you did this morning. Head injuries don't just destroy individual lives, they destroy whole families.

Rob

i think your points are obvious ones, problem is some people dont seem to realise how simple this argument is or should be. whats the difference with motorcyclists? you can fall of each or be knowkced off each and your head is the same regardless of what your riding

 

[Chutzpah]

I want that on a t-shirt. Where can I get that on a t-shirt?

Well, I was borrowing a quote from the wonderful Dr Ben Goldacre, you could always get a shirt with that exact quote on it here:

http://222610.spreadshirt.net/en/GB...-its-a-bit-more-complicated-than-that-8097896

 

[MacB]

I'm absolutely convinced that i would have split my head open yesterday morning at 06:50am when i came off my bike but i think you don't particularly have an issue with the with or without helmet debate Mac? You think maybe i embellished my accident? Let me tell you it's painful and will be for some time.
Don't suppose you are in marketing as you seem to have an issue with the blurb of the aforementioned product? Virtually any product of any nature and the marketing team will inform us that the said product is the best thing on the market, it's the only way they can grow.
Mac, you seem like a decent guy reading your posts can we agree to disagree?
Billy.

Ah Billy, I'm just being pedantic, if you'd said that you believed, in your subjective view, XYZ based on your interpretation of an event then fair enough...it's the factual bit that gets me as it's just an impossibility to prove or disprove.

But don't get me wrong, that's not me saying helmets are good or bad it's just being critical of the emotive arguments that get trotted out as absolutes. Personally I do my own risk assessment and don't wear a helmet when riding on the road or pootling. That doesn't mean that I think it impossible that I'll ever be involved in a scenario where a helmet would have been beneficial, just that I consider the risk inconsequential. Whereas I'm soon to be starting some MTBing and fully expect I will be wearing a, properly fitted, helmet for that.

Of course we can agree to disagree

 

[MacB]

Hello there

It was my wife featured on the show (the lecturer who said that she'd probably be dead without the helmet). Sadly they cut what she had to say so the message didn't really come across. Mac, in her case it is not at all hard to conclude that she would have been far, far worse without the helmet. There was a rock on the road, about a centimetre and a half across, that made a big dent in the lid. Without the helmet I don't think anyone can doubt that it would have gone straight through the side of her skull, meaning that in addition to the other serious injuries she sustained she would have had a dirty depressed fracture in her skull, with lots of bits of bone and grit pushed into her brain. We were extremely lucky: the injuries she sustained should have left her in a hospital for the rest of her life as they were. Had she not worn a helmet I think she probably wouldn't have died, but the most likely outcome is that she wouldn't really have lived either.

Regarding the comment that it's selfish to ride without a helmet, well in my opinion that is true. Having been left coping with a toddler and a baby while my wife spent six weeks in a coma and then six further months in hospital, I can tell you that anyone who doesn't use simple and reasonable precautions to reduce the probability of their family members having to go through similar is indeed selfish. Of course, this depends on whether you think that wearing a helmet is a reasonable effort, and I can understand the argument if you think it's not - I know about the lack of real hard evidence either way on this question, and I agree about the eye-watering foolishness of the comment by the other lady about "forget about research" or whatever it was. Nonetheless, I disagree with you - just remember though that what you're risking isn't a clean death, it's spending the rest of your life having someone else wipe your bottom and not remembering who your children are or what you did this morning. Head injuries don't just destroy individual lives, they destroy whole families.

Rob

Rob, firstly please accept my heartfelt sympathies for your wife, yourself and your family, and I hope things continue to improve.

As to the incident itself, I can't take an opinion other than that it's impossible to prove what would have happened minus the helmet. You may well be absolutely correct and the helmet in question did everything you could ask of it. You're certainly in a far better position to form a subjective view, of this incident, than I am. Or, put another way, I'm not saying you, or anyone else is wrong, just that you're not necessarily right....if that makes sense.

Whereas, in the larger debate, the pro helmet lobby seems happy to insist that they are right and I am wrong. I get the impression of a blinkered view that doesn't actually recognise alternatives.

 

[snorri]

Murry Mint anyone?

Would you mind if I took two? This could go on for a bit.

 

[on the road]

Regarding the comment that it's selfish to ride without a helmet, well in my opinion that is true. Having been left coping with a toddler and a baby while my wife spent six weeks in a coma and then six further months in hospital, I can tell you that anyone who doesn't use simple and reasonable precautions to reduce the probability of their family members having to go through similar is indeed selfish.

That may be true, just like anyone who runs out into the middle of a busy motorway without checking it's safe to do so first. But just because someone doesn't wear a helmet doesn't mean they not taking reasonal precautions. The problem with some people who wear helmets is that once they put that helmet on they think they're safe and can't be harmed by any passing vehicle so take unnecessary risks.

I don't wear a helmet when I'm out on the bike, you might think i'm being selfish, you're entitled to think that but I'm taking precautions by watching the traffic, reading the road ahead and behind and looking wear I'm going, that makes me quite safe. And I ride on busy trunk roads, some with 70 mph speed limits.

 

[snorri]

3- maybe not been mentioned before, it gives me more confidence when riding, weather this is substantiated or not, it does make me feel better

OMG, I wasn't going to add to this thread, but now having read that.

For your own safety, please Google 'risk compensation and bicycle helmets'.

 

[Peter91]

The chance of being hit by a car or falling of you bike and hitting your head is the same if you do or don't wear a helmet.
If you do wear a helmet then obviously the chance of hurting your head is significantly reduced. If you don't then it is significantly increased. The difference between the two is the very, very small inconvenience of having a bit of a weight on your head (less tan 300g) and having to remember to put it on. I see absolutely no logic in deciding not to wear one.

 

[Paul_L]

i always wear a helmet

1 - to set a good example to my kids, practice what i preach
2 - obvious reason, you stand better chance with than without
3- maybe not been mentioned before, it gives me more confidence when riding, weather this is substantiated or not, it does make me feel better

3 good reasons for me to wear my helmet

should it be law? i think it will be one day

then maybe you should focus on riding safely, assertively and focus on hazard awareness rather than be blinkered by the fact that you have some protective equipment on?

I've no real opinion one way or t'other but your 3rd point equates to "drive with a seat belt on and i can put myself in more danger than i can if i drive with no seat belt on."

 

[ufkacbln]

The chance of being hit by a car or falling of you bike and hitting your head is the same if you do or don't wear a helmet.
If you do wear a helmet then obviously the chance of hurting your head is significantly reduced. If you don't then it is significantly increased. The difference between the two is the very, very small inconvenience of having a bit of a weight on your head (less tan 300g) and having to remember to put it on. I see absolutely no logic in deciding not to wear one.

Absolutely....

The chance of being hit by a car or falling when walking or having visited the pub and hitting your head is the same if you do or don't wear a helmet.
If you do wear a helmet then obviously the chance of hurting your head is significantly reduced. If you don't then it is significantly increased. The difference between the two is the very, very small inconvenience of having a bit of a weight on your head (less tan 300g) and having to remember to put it on. I see absolutely no logic in a pedestrian or pub user deciding not to wear one.

1% of head injury admissions are cyclists, 40% are falls and 60% alcohol related...............

 

[screenman]

I see elements of smoking will not give me cancer in these helmet posts, there will always be people who think it will not happen to them. Funny enough thinking about the people I know who do not wear helmets they are all smokers, smelly horrible things. This of course may not be every bodies experience or opinion.

Personally I do not smoke and I do wear a helmet, I have done my own risk assessment and consider it a worth while thing to do.

 

[Peter91]

Absolutely....

The chance of being hit by a car or falling when walking or having visited the pub and hitting your head is the same if you do or don't wear a helmet.
If you do wear a helmet then obviously the chance of hurting your head is significantly reduced. If you don't then it is significantly increased. The difference between the two is the very, very small inconvenience of having a bit of a weight on your head (less tan 300g) and having to remember to put it on. I see absolutely no logic in a pedestrian or pub user deciding not to wear one.

1% of head injury admissions are cyclists, 40% are falls and 60% alcohol related...............

And if cyclists didn't wear helmets that 1% would be a lot higher.

 

[Vikeonabike]

Forgot to put my bone dome on for my commute to work the other day, thought bugger it I'll ride without it today. Then turned around, went home and fetched it. Won't ride without one, saved me too many times not too.

However it is personal choice. Large dent in your head, or large dent in your helmet...