Proposed badger cull

[asterix]

Why can't cattle be vaccinated? I was vaccinated against TB as 14-year-old, much against my will. I remember the horror stories about the size of the needles and the big lump that came up. Even the word vaccine is derived from the Latin for cow. Edward Jenner infected a boy with cow pox before infecting him with small pox to see if he'd die or not.

That sounds somewaht callous. However the practice in those days was in fact to inject people with supposedly mild forms of smallpox in the expectation they would survive and gain immunity. The cow pox was even milder but also bestowed immunity from smallpox.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

most farmers have shotguns though and i can't see a badger surviving a shotgun blast.

Shotguns are ineffective against medium size mammals unless a rifle slug is used. While a shotgun at very close range would undoubtedly be effective, at 40 or so yards, it's just going to cause very nasty injuries.

 

[david1701]

Shotguns are ineffective against medium size mammals unless a rifle slug is used. While a shotgun at very close range would undoubtedly be effective, at 40 or so yards, it's just going to cause very nasty injuries.

as all who play counterstrike know, in close its a killer, at range its useless

 

[Becs]

It gets worse. You mean badgers are to be culled because of the dishonesty of certain farmers or cattle traders.

Vets get struck off if they falsify 1 TB test, TB control is serious business!

 

[Riding in Circles]

There is still very little evidence to support the theory that badgers are responsible for bovine TB, in fact evidence suggests that the vast majority of cattle that contract it do so from other cattle, the answer is vaccination of cattle not the destruction of badgers.

 

[Headgardener]

There is a story about one Somerset badger sett that was gassed several times at vast expense to the government department responsible to try and control bovine TB. But as the saying goes nature abhors a vacuum so the badgers from outside the territory would move in to recolonize it again once the air had cleared.

 

[Becs]

There is still very little evidence to support the theory that badgers are responsible for bovine TB, in fact evidence suggests that the vast majority of cattle that contract it do so from other cattle, the answer is vaccination of cattle not the destruction of badgers.

See above re why cattle can't be vaccinated at present, although they hopefully will be in future. I don't think culling badgers is the answer, but they are obviously involved in the epidemiology of the disease as the trial cull detailed in the krebbs report resulted in an increase in tb incidence in line with an increase in badger migration. It is a multifactorial epidemiology and sadly badgers are an easy target

 

[Becs]

There is still very little evidence to support the theory that badgers are responsible for bovine TB, in fact evidence suggests that the vast majority of cattle that contract it do so from other cattle, the answer is vaccination of cattle not the destruction of badgers.

See above re why cattle can't be vaccinated at present, although they hopefully will be in future. I don't think culling badgers is the answer, but they are obviously involved in the epidemiology of the disease as the trial cull detailed in the krebbs report resulted in an increase in tb incidence in line with an increase in badger migration. It is a multifactorial epidemiology and sadly badgers are an easy target

 

[Becs]

Bloody iPhones!

 

[Yellow Fang]

Vets get struck off if they falsify 1 TB test, TB control is serious business!

Some diseases yes. Some sort of marking would be a good idea, but it would have to be something that cannot be mimicked by lay people. A lot of research is being done at the moment to tag the vaccine strain of virus so that vaccinated vs infected can be distinguished by a blood test or similar, but there is nothing available yet unfortunately.

I wasn't suggesting that vets would falsify TB tests. Your statement that any marking indicating vaccination should not be imitable by lay people made me think you were implying that unscrupulous farmers or traders would try and pass on non-vaccinated animals, for example, if the marking was something like a stamped ear that could be mimicked.

 

[Becs]

I wasn't suggesting that vets would falsify TB tests. Your statement that any marking indicating vaccination should not be imitable by lay people made me think you were implying that unscrupulous farmers or traders would try and pass on non-vaccinated animals, for example, if the marking was something like a stamped ear that could be mimicked.

To be honest with the current economics of british farming and the cost of replacing a herd after a tb reactor i wouldn't blame them (I'd blame the supermarkets for buying cheap crappy imported meat from places with poor welfare and requiring v high welfare (expensive) standards from British farmers without paying them appropriately). Even if people were very decent about it all it still has to be a fail safe system, as tb is a notifiable disease. I only made the comment about vets because one was recently struck off for falsifying a tb test.

 

[Yellow Fang]

I'd blame the supermarkets for buying cheap crappy imported meat from places with poor welfare and requiring v high welfare (expensive) standards from British farmers without paying them appropriately

That seems very unfair. I once read a book called The Omnivore's Dilemma, which was an American book about food production in the US. The factory farming methods sounded very grim, especially of a poor steer he had bought that was kept in an overcrowded warehouse and fed on maize, which causes them liver damage.

 

[Yellow Fang]

Also, what is a notifiable disease?

 

[Becs]

That seems very unfair. I once read a book called The Omnivore's Dilemma, which was an American book about food production in the US. The factory farming methods sounded very grim, especially of a poor steer he had bought that was kept in an overcrowded warehouse and fed on maize, which causes them liver damage.

Yep, the "barley beef" system over there is very cruel, although unfortunately results in very tasty, tender meat (probably because the animals are too ill to run around) and therefore there is still a demand for it in the US. In this country consumers justifiably want high welfare standards which tesco et al are only too happy to impose, however they won't sell British meat that doesn't meet these standards and don't feel like they have to pay the farmers appropriately. They will still import cheap, intensively farmed crap, from south america especially for their value ranges thereby keeping the prices down. The best way to support British farmers is to buy from farm shops and local butchers whenever possible. I worked on an organic mixed dairy and beef farm during vet school (Alvis Brothers just outside Bristol - they have an amazing farm shop just off the A38, or at least they used to a few years ago) and I have a lot of sympathy for British farmers, especially having had foot and mouth and TB to deal with as well in recent years.

 

[Becs]

Also, what is a notifiable disease?

A disease that by law vets must report to DEFRA if they diagnose or are suspicious of it, same category as rabies, foot and mouth etc