Proposed badger cull

[Cycling Naturalist]

The best way to support British farmers is to buy from farm shops and local butchers whenever possible. I worked on an organic mixed dairy and beef farm during vet school (Alvis Brothers just outside Bristol - they have an amazing farm shop just off the A38, or at least they used to a few years ago) and I have a lot of sympathy for British farmers, especially having had foot and mouth and TB to deal with as well in recent years.

I agree totally. If you go to the excellent Steve McCardle in Chirk, you can get locally raised Gloucester Old Spot pork - and it's no more expensive than supermarket gunge. The difference in taste is amazing though. A lot of the local farmers now bypass Rapacity Incorporated (the supermarkets) have the animals killed and butchered at a local abbatoir near Wrexham, and sell directly to the public and to the independent butchers.

 

[porteous]

I totally agree about Steve Mcardles meat- beautiful!

Do we have a vet or a farmer on the forum? I would really like their views.

It does seem to me that cows are economically important and badgers aren't. Hard but true. If the two are cross infecting which one needs to be drastically reduced?

Also, if small area culls attract infection from neighbouring areas then a mass cull is the only sort of cull to consider, if culling is the chosen control method.

What I would be more concerned about is the intention after such a cull. Badgers cannot be allowed to disappear as a species, therefore I would like to know how much of the badger population will remain after the cull and what proposals exist to reduce the remaining threat to beef/milk herds?

Will the residual population be small enough to enable mass inoculation of badgers? (Assuming you can produce and transmit an oral virus which works). If this is not the intention then by what percentage is it assumed that bovine TB will be reduced? A reduced badger population will inevitably increase over time. Does DEFRA intend regular mass culls, or an ongoing constant cull?

Nice to get some hard information on all this!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

There is still very little evidence to support the theory that badgers are responsible for bovine TB, in fact evidence suggests that the vast majority of cattle that contract it do so from other cattle, the answer is vaccination of cattle not the destruction of badgers.

Amen to that. I think it is another excuse for the Hunting and Shooting class to get their jollies.

 

[Becs]

I totally agree about Steve Mcardles meat- beautiful!

Do we have a vet or a farmer on the forum? I would really like their views.

I'm a vet. Although admittedly a horse vet and a PhD student rather than a farm animal vet! Your questions were really interesting (and I'm with you on domesticated cattle being more important than badgers - cue vegetarian rantings!) and tbh I don't know all the details but the DEFRA website should have lots of information on it. I'm not against culling badgers if it's done humanely and will definitely work - the problem is I don't think there's enough evidence to say it will definitely work to justify a cull at present.

Amen to that. I think it is another excuse for the Hunting and Shooting class to get their jollies.

Oh FFS! This is a huge economic issue that is putting a massive strain on UK farming, it's nothing to do with classist bullsh*t or the enjoyment of killing wildlife!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Oh FFS! This is a huge economic issue that is putting a massive strain on UK farming, it's nothing to do with classist bullsh*t or the enjoyment of killing wildlife!

As you say there is no conclusive proof that Badgers are responsible for spreading TB so the enthusiasm over the cull seems how shall we say a little strange at best . Why not research and implement Vaccination and ident. technology instead of killing this wonderful creatures?

 

[Becs]

As you say there is no conclusive proof that Badgers are responsible for spreading TB so the enthusiasm over the cull seems how shall we say a little strange at best . Why not research and implement Vaccination and ident. technology instead of killing this wonderful creatures?

This is being done, but it takes years to bring new vaccines onto the market. Like I said I'm not necessarily pro-cull but the situation is pretty desperate so I can see why DEFRA is reaching for more immediate strategies while they wait for new vaccines.

I really don't see the link between the hunting and shooting classes and this though - no one will be getting any pleasure from this, except perhaps the farmers if it works and financial conditions for them improve. Even then I'm sure they would rather it was done differently.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Amen to that. I think it is another excuse for the Hunting and Shooting class to get their jollies.

Oh dear, you don't really understand anything do you? Even the farmers I know who desperately want a badger cull as a disease control measure, hate the mechanics of it.

 

[porteous]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Becs, nice to see some information rather than just an opinion

PS. I spent most of my life in the army. I suppose that makes me one of the shooting class?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Oh dear, you don't really understand anything do you? Even the farmers I know who desperately want a badger cull as a disease control measure, hate the mechanics of it.

and yet there is an ongoing debate about "what can one kill?" That implies a desire to kill rather than a need. Do they desperately want a cul or do they desperately want a solution to the problem?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

PS. I spent most of my life in the army. I suppose that makes me one of the shooting class?

I think you are excused

 

[Dragonwight]

Im sure i read a few years back that in germany they were vaccinating badgers against TB by dropping pellets from the air which they would then eat and it had substantially reduced TB. Expensive to do i should imagine.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

and yet there is an ongoing debate about "what can one kill?" That implies a desire to kill rather than a need. Do they desperately want a cul or do they desperately want a solution to the problem?

The ones I know want a solution. One organic dairy farmer who I've known for 30 years really loves badgers, but he's worried sick that they'll infect his herd. He told me that there used to be a consistent three setts on his farm, and a lot of hedgehogs. He now has twelve setts and no hedgehogs.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Im sure i read a few years back that in germany they were vaccinating badgers against TB by dropping pellets from the air which they would then eat and it had substantially reduced TB. Expensive to do i should imagine.

Sounds like a great idea though.

 

[Becs]

and yet there is an ongoing debate about "what can one kill?" That implies a desire to kill rather than a need. Do they desperately want a cul or do they desperately want a solution to the problem?

The latter, if they wanted to kill for fun they'd go shoot something edible or go fox-hunting and hope the hounds go for a fox than the trail left by the runner. This has nothing to do with blood sports!

I think they have been talking about mass vaccination of badgers in this country too, it would be good if they could make it work.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

The ones I know want a solution. One organic dairy farmer who I've known for 30 years really loves badgers, but he's worried sick that they'll infect his herd. He told me that there used to be a consistent three setts on his farm, and a lot of hedgehogs. He now has twelve setts and no hedgehogs.

OK a great start. I wish the powers that be would put more money into prevention rather than (fatal) cures.