Q for those with trade experience - how is a bike supplied from the wholesaler and what happens before it's sold?

[dodgy]

mine was perfect apart from them fitting a 10 speed cassette instead of an 11 speed one

Yeah, apart from that it was perfect.

 

[Pale Rider]

They were fine with me in store and by phone, and I sound very Southern perhaps being female and spending north of 2k helped a bit. They even entertained my need for purple tape (I supplied) and cable outers (they sourced). I think they were rather taken with the purple accents

The current owner of Spa, fair haired guy, late 40s, is a bit Daily Mail if you get him talking on current affairs.

Didn't bother me, needless to say.

Most of the complaints seem to come from a 'we are the touring specialists and we know best' attitude.

At Spa, the customer isn't always right.

Good for test rides though, as me and others on here have found.

You are told you can have the bike for more or less as long as you want it.

I had a nice flat ride for a few miles along the Beryl Burton track to Ripley.

On another note we do get asked to build bikes bought online and the state of some is shocking,cross threaded freewheel on a Muddy Fox for example

My local bike shop offers a build a bike in a box service for a flat rate.

Generally, the cheaper the bike, the more that needs doing.

Some of the cheap bikes, after being knocked into shape by a proper mechanic, can be surprisingly decent.

 

[midlife]

Back in the 70's when I worked in a bike shop it was one of my jobs to make sure new bikes were fit to go out of the door.

All of the bits were there but think Austin Allegro and men in donkey jackets stood around a brazier. Every nut and bolt had to be checked. And then we polished them so they looked good........ After dealing with the scratched and chipped paintwork!

 

[PaulSB]

At Spa, the customer isn't always right.

Just the same at mine. They tell you what you need not what you want.

They also take the piss, shoot the breeze, make coffee, advise on everything and comment on your last Strava ride.

Great stuff.

 

[Vantage]

I've visited Spa but once and that was while getting the frame and wheels for the old 26" wheeled tourer.
Some chap was in getting his bike serviced and asked for a part/accessory. He didn't get the usual "Yes certainly sir" or "What colour do you want it in?" response, but a rather abrupt "What do you want that for?" in a very "What the hell do you want for you clueless imbecile???" tone.
Pam and I had to turn our faces away as we were dying to burst out laughing at the way it came across. The customer looked speechless.
They don't mess about at Spa

 

[Dogtrousers]

A Spa story.

I mentioned that when I got my bike from Spa that I supplied my own wheels (quite new, built for me by a chap local to me). As I discovered this offer was conditional on the fact that Spa got to insult my wheels first.

As I handed them over the guy twanged the spokes, spun the wheels, sucked his teeth and shook his head sadly before asking "who built these?" I gave him the name of the guy. "He's used t'wrong kind of spokes". (Maybe they were butted, or not butted, or spiffly, or not spiffly or something I can't remember)

The wheels were absolutely fine despite having t'wrong spokes. I had the rims replaced several times. I've lost track now but it's entirely possible that I may still be riding round with t'wrong spokes in at least one of my wheels.

 

[Gunk]

This whole world of brand new bikes sounds very stressful, luckily I always buy used. 👍

 

[CanucksTraveller]

Tbh I'd rather just get the bike in a box, take it home and build it myself; however I'm also aware (especially having been told so in a pretty pointed manner by one shop) that if this were to happen any subsequent issues would all be on me (so grand if I unpack it and find a problem from the supplier before I even start to put it together).

Sorry @wafter for leaving it so long.

Anyway, this is not true and I think you were misled. Your contract with the retailer is the same whether it's an LBS or a mass online retailer. A couple of years ago I bought a Giant TCR via mail order, and built / finished it myself from the box. Just weeks later one of the Tiagra brifters failed and would no longer change gear (broken ratchet), so I contacted the retailer, and they ordered one and sent it out to me. There was no question of "did you touch this part during your build?", they just replaced it under warranty. I elected to fit it myself rather than mail the bike off to Norfolk by the way.
Where it might be different is if you mess things up in the build, break a cable etc, but let's face it that's unlikely.

I've asked a local place about allowing me to unpack and build the bike in the shop and am awaiting a response, however past that it's looking like mail-order only, with all the additional pleasure in the returns process if I find anything wrong.

No I can't see anyone letting you build a mail order bike in a shop.

What I do care about is irreversible damage; chipped paint and scratches from slipped / carelessly used tools or rough handling, missing paint on the dropouts from carelessly dropping the frame onto the axles or worse onto the floor.. chewed and over-tightened fixings (although of course these can be replaced so are less of an issue).

That's very atypical I'd suggest, that would be a pretty bad bike shop that did that. I know you referred to Halfords... but even they're not all bad, I've bought a 200 quid Carrera for my daughter from Halfords and let them do the build, and it came out perfect. Local bike shops should be pretty much faultless when it comes to setting up a new bike, and for doing it with care.


I've generally been happy to buy mid range bikes mail order and I've built them myself, and I've had no real issues other than that one brifter problem. With the Genesis TdF that I ordered recently it was a little different; I was paying that much more than I would normally. It had disc brakes which I'm not yet proficient at servicing or setting up. I'm also not quick at indexing gears, I get there but I'd rather someone else do it well. The price ordering through my LBS was the same as online. And I trust my LBS, they've been around forever and they know their stuff, and they care. So in the end it was a peace of mind decision for me to buy from them, have it set up, and also to get a free service in a couple of months when everything has stretched in.

I seriously considered Spa for one of their own bikes, but the real deal breaker for me was that they're hundreds of miles away anyway, so to me that's not really much better than buying mail order. I know they know what they're doing, but as you say, if there was an issue out of the box or in transit I've got all the palaver of somehow getting that bike up to Yorkshire, put right, and then brought back. My LBS is ten minutes' walk away.

It sounds to me like you have a poor LBS, do you not have alternatives? I have two in my town, and the "other" one (that I don't use), I wouldn't trust to feed my cat let alone work on my bikes. So bad ones exist.

 

[DRM]

My latest bike was bought from Cycle Republic in Leeds, the salesman knew what he was talking about re the bikes in stock, and was prepared/delivered in perfect condition along with the extras fitted to it, that I’d asked for, all I had to do was fine tune the fit to suit me once I’d had a couple of rides on it, which let’s face it anyone would have to do with a new bike.
it honestly sounds to me like your LBS are useless.

 

[wafter]

Thanks guys - your insight is very much appreciated, even if I've not really made any progress in reaching a decision..

This whole world of brand new bikes sounds very stressful, luckily I always buy used.

Indeed - I'm usually the same, however limited supply of the size and spec required, plus silly used prices have pretty much killed that idea in this instance. Still keeping an eye on ebay but then I've seen nowt suitable come up for months, so I'm not holding out much hope.

Sorry @wafter for leaving it so long.

Anyway, this is not true and I think you were misled. Your contract with the retailer is the same whether it's an LBS or a mass online retailer. A couple of years ago I bought a Giant TCR via mail order, and built / finished it myself from the box. Just weeks later one of the Tiagra brifters failed and would no longer change gear (broken ratchet), so I contacted the retailer, and they ordered one and sent it out to me. There was no question of "did you touch this part during your build?", they just replaced it under warranty. I elected to fit it myself rather than mail the bike off to Norfolk by the way.
Where it might be different is if you mess things up in the build, break a cable etc, but let's face it that's unlikely.



No I can't see anyone letting you build a mail order bike in a shop.



That's very atypical I'd suggest, that would be a pretty bad bike shop that did that. I know you referred to Halfords... but even they're not all bad, I've bought a 200 quid Carrera for my daughter from Halfords and let them do the build, and it came out perfect. Local bike shops should be pretty much faultless when it comes to setting up a new bike, and for doing it with care.


I've generally been happy to buy mid range bikes mail order and I've built them myself, and I've had no real issues other than that one brifter problem. With the Genesis TdF that I ordered recently it was a little different; I was paying that much more than I would normally. It had disc brakes which I'm not yet proficient at servicing or setting up. I'm also not quick at indexing gears, I get there but I'd rather someone else do it well. The price ordering through my LBS was the same as online. And I trust my LBS, they've been around forever and they know their stuff, and they care. So in the end it was a peace of mind decision for me to buy from them, have it set up, and also to get a free service in a couple of months when everything has stretched in.

I seriously considered Spa for one of their own bikes, but the real deal breaker for me was that they're hundreds of miles away anyway, so to me that's not really much better than buying mail order. I know they know what they're doing, but as you say, if there was an issue out of the box or in transit I've got all the palaver of somehow getting that bike up to Yorkshire, put right, and then brought back. My LBS is ten minutes' walk away.

It sounds to me like you have a poor LBS, do you not have alternatives? I have two in my town, and the "other" one (that I don't use), I wouldn't trust to feed my cat let alone work on my bikes. So bad ones exist.

No worries - ta for writing all that out!

Perhaps I was misled re. my rights in building the bike myself; although tbh (as usual) the guy I was speaking to didn't do a great job of answering my questions so there were probably a few misunderstandings in there. Also, it appeared he was becoming increasingly irate / resentful of my dim view of those in his trade (despite my efforts to be as respectful as possible) so in the end I just sacked that shop off as I could see no middle ground being reached and hence no point in pursuing the matter, which is a shame IMO.

To clarify, I'd not asked anyone to all me to build a bike sourced elsewhere in their shop - tbh it would be ideal if I could avoid shops all together! My request was for the shop in question to order the bike in for me, leave it sealed and allow me to unpack and build it myself (supervised by them as necessary).

I was very impressed by the attitude of the LBS in their response to this request; as predicted stating that they'd need to build the bike themselves but that I could always reject it if I wasn't happy with it (which rightly or wrongly gave me a lot more confidence in their desire / ability to build it well). Unfortunately, while this experience was a huge incentive to deal with them, they couldn't get too close on the price and with things being as they are for me currently I couldn't justify the extra; much as I'd be happy to pay for the better service in an ideal world.

Best case as far as I'm concerned would be to get a guaranteed defect-free bike direct from the manufacturer and build it at home with no impact upon its warranty should I find anything wrong. This is apparently not possible as Genesis don't supply direct and there's always some need for the bike to be built up / PDI'd by a middleman somewhere; who are the people I don't trust to tie their own shoelaces.

Being where I am there are probably 7-8 "local" bike shops; four of which I've had very unfavourable experiences with in distant-ish past regarding repairs / service / product quality. Only two remained that are Genesis dealers; one I've since rejected based on seeing a member of their staff cosmetically ruin a seatpost while adjusting the seat postion.. the other I'd have been happy to deal with had I been able to accomodate the higher cost of sourcing the bike through them.

I suspect from my posts I'm coming across as "one of those" customers - All I want is an undamaged product that's fit for purpose and put together with care by someone sincere and trustworthy.. however from past experience it appears this is too much to ask. I'm very envious of your decent LBS and relationship with them - it sounds like you've struck gold tbh!

I feel the same about Spa tbh; they sound pretty good but less appealing given the distances involved. How are you getting on with the TdF anyway? Have you posted a thread on it? Would be interested to hear more

So, for now I've pretty much ruled out any bike shop in the city (and with it any small independents, which is a shame as I'd rather support such businesses). I've also ruled out building the bike from a frameset as this would most likely push me beyond my budget, despite its potential advantages.

I see Rutland Cycling have a branch relatively close in Bucks; so might drop them a line to see if they'll price-match some of the online retailers as they appear to have very good reviews and the localiy means I could inspect the bike before taking it away and it'd not be so far to take it back in the event of any issues.. tbh piled on top of my questionable ability to justify the cost of the bike all this hassle and anxiety is really making me question whether I want to bother at all.

 

[Pale Rider]

I've since rejected based on seeing a member of their staff cosmetically ruin a seatpost while adjusting the seat postion.

Some seat tubes have burrs on them that will scrape an anodised black saddle post.

That cannot be determined until you move the saddle post, by which time it's too late.

Hardly fair to reject the shop on the basis they adjusted a saddle.

Not so clever if they refused to change it, but it is only a twenty quid seat post.

 

[wafter]

Some seat tubes have burrs on them that will scrape an anodised black saddle post.

That cannot be determined until you move the saddle post, by which time it's too late.

Hardly fair to reject the shop on the basis they adjusted a saddle.

Not so clever if they refused to change it, but it is only a twenty quid seat post.

Pretty sure that wasn't the case in this instance - I watched the shop assistant put successive, deep scratches through the finish on the tube as he dragged his fold-out Allen keys past it while adjusting the seat rail bolts. I thought I was seeing things to start with (perhaps existing damage as you suggest), however watching more intently on successive turns of the bolt apparently saw more damage appear in the same area.

At a guess I think the damage was caused by the pressed steel body of the Allen key set being forced into hard contact with the tube due to clearance issues created by the location and orientation of the seat rail clamp bolt and seat tube; exacerbated by the length of the keys. Tbh I've always viewed fold-out stuff as a tool of convenience in an emergency rather than something I'd expect to find in a workshop. Needless to say the use of a proper, single L-shaped key (especially with a ball end) would have avoided the situation completely.

Otherwise I'd agree with you; damage does happen and a replacement part would make things good again. Thankfully for the guy / shop in question the damaged part was easily replaceable, although witnessing it happen was certainly enough to make up my mind about their abilities to carry out any more challenging tasks. Highly disappointing, but I guess potentially better than having to deal with damage to an expensive new purchase.

 

[Pale Rider]

I agree about fold out allen keys, although @Yellow Saddle would have a fit if he sees you recommending ball ends.

I'm still not clear what the problem is with buying a bike as the shop wants to sell it to you, taking it home in the car, and rebuilding before riding.

Alternatively, buy the bike in a box from one of the big online discounters.

 

[Milkfloat]

Good luck with your search, although I am 100% convinced you are utterly overthinking this. The answer is very simple, order a bike from wherever you like and if you are not 100% happy with the build, reject it. It really is as simple as that. I am not surprised the guys in the LBS are starting to get "increasingly irate / resentful of my dim view of those in his trade".

 

[wafter]

I agree about fold out allen keys, although @Yellow Saddle would have a fit if he sees you recommending ball ends.

I'm still not clear what the problem is with buying a bike as the shop wants to sell it to you, taking it home in the car, and rebuilding before riding.

Alternatively, buy the bike in a box from one of the big online discounters.

Nowt wrong with ball-ended keys IMO as long as they're being used as intended - i.e. low torque application for spinning fixings in and out under no load.

My issue is that I don't trust the shop to put the bike together without damaging it. I really couldn't care less if I had to set up the gears / brakes etc (which would probably need doing after running in anyway, and needless to say once out the bike would never be seeing the inside of another shop!).

What I want to avoid is the possibility of dealing with damage caused by the shop and all the fun that involves; arguments over what is and is not acceptable, accusations as to the cause if the bike's been taken off-site, disagreements over how the damage should be rectified... Same with online stuff - in the event of an issue it's not like I can stick it in a jiffy bag and post it back for a quid.

Good luck with your search, although I am 100% convinced you are utterly overthinking this. The answer is very simple, order a bike from wherever you like and if you are not 100% happy with the build, reject it. It really is as simple as that. I am not surprised the guys in the LBS are starting to get "increasingly irate / resentful of my dim view of those in his trade".

Thanks and yes, it's likely I am overthinking this as predisposed to such things.. Equally, when assessed rationally based on my past experiences (of pretty much every piece of work I've given to an LBS resulting in damage to my bike) I think my reservations are entirely justified.

I understand your point about the "guys in my LBS"; however IMO any resentment they might feel towards me is totally undermined by the butchery I witnessed first-hand on their part while attempting to undertake such a basic task - perfectly illustrating the reasons driving my fears.

I can see the way this thread is starting to go; the finger of accusation slowly being turned towards me and the suggestion that I'm being unreasonable just because I happen to have a particular problem with people wrecking stuff that I value...