R4 Woman's hour - Women cyclists killed by HGVs

[HJ]

Was it last year that there was a report into these kind of deaths that was discussed in parliament? I think one of the conclusions was that more women were killed because we're more likely to obey the law and not rlj.
Men are more likely to rlj and so get out of the way of lorries coming up alongside them to turn left.

Me, I just wait further out in the lane if there's a large vehicle behind or it's a junction where a lot of cars turn left, although that does sometimes result in beeping or engine revving.

Total rubbish!! RLJing is just plain stupid! It is about road positioning get into the Primary position if you are the front of the queue, then you won't anyone come along side to turn left...

 

[HJ]

One of the women seriously injured in London recently was cycling along a straight bit of road when an HGV overtook her... or at least the cab did. It then left hooked her but unfortunately before the back wheels had passed her. She's alive but is apparently likely to lose her leg.

It's very easy to blame the victim, especially when the victim is dead and can't give their side of the story. We don't know that ANY of these women went up the left hand side of the HGV.

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine in Aberdeen, broke his hip, one of the factors in the "accident" was that he was an inexperienced cyclist, he tended to ride far to close to the kerb and he defiantly didn't filter. Problem is most drivers just don't look there and so don't see cyclist there which is why I say that cyclist should stay at least 1 m out from the kerb...

 

[CotterPin]

One of the women seriously injured in London recently was cycling along a straight bit of road when an HGV overtook her... or at least the cab did. It then left hooked her but unfortunately before the back wheels had passed her. She's alive but is apparently likely to lose her leg.

It's very easy to blame the victim, especially when the victim is dead and can't give their side of the story. We don't know that ANY of these women went up the left hand side of the HGV.

Simon - it can be the case that a lorry overtakes and pulls in too close to the kerb in front of you. My comment was that I do not come up the inside of a vehicle - that is, one that has already passed me. What I have observed are incidents where cyclists approach and then squeeze down the inside of a lorry that is already stationary in traffic or at lights so they can get in front of it.

 

[CotterPin]

Total rubbish!! RLJing is just plain stupid! It is about road positioning get into the Primary position if you are the front of the queue, then you won't anyone come along side to turn left...

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine in Aberdeen, broke his hip, one of the factors in the "accident" was that he was an inexperienced cyclist, he tended to ride far to close to the kerb and he defiantly didn't filter. Problem is most drivers just don't look there and so don't see cyclist there which is why I say that cyclist should stay at least 1 m out from the kerb...

+ 2

 

[Crankarm]

One of the women seriously injured in London recently was cycling along a straight bit of road when an HGV overtook her... or at least the cab did. It then left hooked her but unfortunately before the back wheels had passed her. She's alive but is apparently likely to lose her leg.

It's very easy to blame the victim, especially when the victim is dead and can't give their side of the story. We don't know that ANY of these women went up the left hand side of the HGV.

I think this was Cynthia Barlow's daughter but maybe not. She was killed in 2000 by a tipper truck that passed her but then turned left across her path driving over her. But there have been others .

Another Eilidh Cairns killed at Notting Hill Gate in february:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...+after+cyclist+dies+in+lorry+crash/article.do

Tribute:

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...6/a-fitting-tribute-to-eilidh-61634-23012786/

Cynthia Barlow chair of Roadpeace has now brought about a change in the law so that the offence of causing death by carless driving has been created previously only causing death by dangerous or reckless driving was available to prosecutors which was an anomoly. Full marks to her.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/15/motoring.law

Also this site moving target has a fair bit of info on cycling fatalities in London. Some may be familiar with it's content.

http://www.movingtargetzine.com/

.

It is my feeling regarding tackling the danger of HGV tipper lorries to cyclists especially with so much construction going on in London for the Olympics and Crossrail is to lobby the Mayor BJ. He is immensely powerful and could easily bring in measures or restrictions on them. AFAIK other large HGV lorries such as your supermarket articulated lorries are not involved in this type of RTA. So it must down to the type of individual who drives these particular tipper HGVs and the companies that control, operate or own these vehicles. The Mayor has the requisite power to get something done to at least reduce or stop these collisions happening.

 

[summerdays]

Was it last year that there was a report into these kind of deaths that was discussed in parliament? I think one of the conclusions was that more women were killed because we're more likely to obey the law and not rlj.
Men are more likely to rlj and so get out of the way of lorries coming up alongside them to turn left.

Me, I just wait further out in the lane if there's a large vehicle behind or it's a junction where a lot of cars turn left, although that does sometimes result in beeping or engine revving.

Women are more likely to wait nearer the kerb not in primary at a junction. I did when I started, and mentioned the problem of left hooks to a friend who explained about where I should be waiting to prevent them. Its isn't related to RLJ'ing directly (only indirectly from the point that they aren't at the junction waiting in the right or wrong position).

 

[Molecule Man]

It is my feeling regarding tackling the danger of HGV tipper lorries to cyclists especially with so much construction going on in London for the Olympics and Crossrail is to lobby the Mayor BJ. He is immensely powerful and could easily bring in measures or restrictions on them. AFAIK other large HGV lorries such as your supermarket articulated lorries are not involved in this type of RTA. So it must down to the type of individual who drives these particular tipper HGVs and the companies that control, operate or own these vehicles. The Mayor has the requisite power to get something done to at least reduce or stop these collisions happening.

I have fortunately never witnessed such a horrible incident, and it is obviously foolish to cats blame in particular incidents without access to detailed information.

However, from general observation of their behaviour on the roads, tipper truck and skip lorry drivers seem to me to be among the most reckless and aggressive road users in London (not all of them of course, but a large proportion). They often drive far too fast for the conditions, act intimidatingly to other motorists as well as cyclists, and many of them are unidentifiable with no company markings and number plates obscured by dirt. They are the only vehicles I am positively scared of. I understand the drivers may be under a lot of pressure to make their pickup/delivery as quickly as possible, but that is a symptom of a wider problem.
Is there anyone here in that line of work who can comment on the level of regulation/scrutiny of these drivers compared to other commercial HGV drivers? Maybe it needs to be tightened up, in addition to fitting better mirros etc.

 

[Origamist]

I think this was Cynthia Barlow's daughter but maybe not. She was killed in 2000 by a tipper truck that passed her but then turned left across her path driving over her. But there have been others .

I believe Simon B is referring to the collision in Peckham in early June. The lady suffered severe leg and hip injuries.

 

[Origamist]

Total rubbish!! RLJing is just plain stupid! It is about road positioning get into the Primary position if you are the front of the queue, then you won't anyone come along side to turn left...

Unless there is more than one lane.

 

[summerdays]

Well I spoke to the site manager today and wasn't impressed ... he hadn't heard of the extra mirrors and said it was up to the individual company as to what safety measures they had on their vehicles. I suppose the next step is to contact the actual company and maybe the council (as they are the owners of the site I think).

 

[Crankarm]

Well I spoke to the site manager today and wasn't impressed ... he hadn't heard of the extra mirrors and said it was up to the individual company as to what safety measures they had on their vehicles. I suppose the next step is to contact the actual company and maybe the council (as they are the owners of the site I think).

Good luck contacting the company concerned. One would have thought that the Council would have done some sort of risk assessment and at least ensured that warning signs were inplace for each type of road user given the frequency of trips you say these trucks are making especially if there are lots of cyclists or peds using the nearby approach roads. In fact why not just tell the Council you have cycled past this place and on several occasions had you life endangered by these trucks constantly arriving and leaving the site. The other avenue might well be the HSE or Driving Standards Agency who regulate HGV drivers or local plod if there has been law breaking but don't get your hopes up with plod as they often prove ineffectual .

 

[Origamist]

Well I spoke to the site manager today and wasn't impressed ... he hadn't heard of the extra mirrors and said it was up to the individual company as to what safety measures they had on their vehicles. I suppose the next step is to contact the actual company and maybe the council (as they are the owners of the site I think).

Yes, write to the haulage companies.

Cite the work done by Cemex and ask what they are doing:

"CEMEX has worked closely with RoSPA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents) to raise awareness of the dangers cyclists face when they are on the road with large vehicles. The company has also fitted safety features, such as additional blind spot mirrors, audible warning speakers, reversing cameras and warning signage on the side and the rear of CEMEX vehicles - to help avoid accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians. As part of this initiative, the company has contributed to a video and poster campaign, which have been widely used by a number of organisations, including police, to promote cycling safety. "

 

[Crankarm]

Brillant, why not lie and bullshit the council? Bravo!

Lee - So not out driving your truck today .

 

[Origamist]

Did see an HGV the other day with a big sign on the rear saying; "Cyclists Please Don't Under-take" [or something to that effect].

This is the sign I see most commonly:

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

Do you think there would be an improvement in drivers' attitudes to cyclists and therefore better saftey, if as part of obtaining a driving license included cycling for 3 months? I have no idea how it could be enforced but it's just a thought.

Leading on from that, is there any edivence that would suggest that drivers who cycle regularly are involved in fewer accidents with cyclists than drivers who never cycle? Obviously this would need to be calculated per 'mile on the road'.

Come on you Statos!

I think the bit in bold couldn't hurt. I'd go further: I'd make everyone walk down the side of a 60mph B road with a narrow (or no) footpath for a couple of miles just so they could experience how much fun it isn't when a ton-and-a-bit of metal goes past at just over 60.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't go that fast on B roads: I certainly do*. But I am nice to people walking / cycling / riding their horse along said roads .. 'cos I know how bloody terrifying it can be.

* in the car, not on the bike.