OP
OP
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
Unfortunately completely at odds with my experiences Jimbo.
Rear Ended Again
- Thread starter benborp
- Start date
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Unfortunately completely at odds with my experiences Jimbo.
That's strange, as none of those types of incidents have happened either.
Am I just very fortunate, or very careful?
Black Sheep
Guru
- Location
- Rammy
It could be that even if you ride in the centre of Solihull or even Birmingham that you are not in such dense traffic as you find in London, having driven both through Birmingham on a regular basis and London a number of times due to an interesting job, Birmingham traffic is not as bad as central London and I would rather ride up Queensway on a bike than through the centre of London in rush hour.
It's my Birthday and I'll squabble if I want to.....
Cyclists on bikes at traffic junctions have the same OR LESS chance of being hit from behind as motorcars.
Motorcars have a side lamp and a stop lamp on each side and a 'high level stop lamp' which is supposed to be seen through the windows of cars behind.
In broad daylight, a motorist won't have his side lamps on. He will have braked, and if he's a good motorist, will be holding the car stationary with the hand brake which doesn't activate the stop lamps.
Therefore, there are no illuminated warnings of a stationary vehicle. Motorcycles activate the brake lamp with the foot brake.
Cyclists however, if they are good cyclists, will have a bright jersey and a flashing LED rearlamp even in broad daylight.
It is indeed unfortunate to be rear-ended on a bike, and a situation I try to avoid.
The method is to come to a halt level with the rear nearside quarter of the vehicle immediately ahead. Not giving a chance for his rear nearside passenger to 'door' you. While at a standstill, look round and attract the eye of the driver of the vehicle behind. This can be done by waving your hand round like you have numb fingers, or wiping your eyes. Or clear your nostrils on the road infront of his car.
When the traffic starts to move, look round at him, give a signal and accelerate away into secondary.
Of course, no cyclist does it like this. They ride up the curbside or the offside to the head of the queue where they remerge with the traffic. This infuriates motorists.
Its 'greedy' and 'cheeky'.
Or, they come to a standstill in the middle of the lane directly behind the car ahead hoping the car behind stops.
It's my Birthday and I'll squabble if I want to.....
Cyclists on bikes at traffic junctions have the same OR LESS chance of being hit from behind as motorcars.
Motorcars have a side lamp and a stop lamp on each side and a 'high level stop lamp' which is supposed to be seen through the windows of cars behind.
In broad daylight, a motorist won't have his side lamps on. He will have braked, and if he's a good motorist, will be holding the car stationary with the hand brake which doesn't activate the stop lamps.
Therefore, there are no illuminated warnings of a stationary vehicle. Motorcycles activate the brake lamp with the foot brake.
Cyclists however, if they are good cyclists, will have a bright jersey and a flashing LED rearlamp even in broad daylight.
It is indeed unfortunate to be rear-ended on a bike, and a situation I try to avoid.
The method is to come to a halt level with the rear nearside quarter of the vehicle immediately ahead. Not giving a chance for his rear nearside passenger to 'door' you. While at a standstill, look round and attract the eye of the driver of the vehicle behind. This can be done by waving your hand round like you have numb fingers, or wiping your eyes. Or clear your nostrils on the road infront of his car.
When the traffic starts to move, look round at him, give a signal and accelerate away into secondary.
Of course, no cyclist does it like this. They ride up the curbside or the offside to the head of the queue where they remerge with the traffic. This infuriates motorists.
Its 'greedy' and 'cheeky'.
Or, they come to a standstill in the middle of the lane directly behind the car ahead hoping the car behind stops.
Your suggestion sounds like you have left a huge gap on your right which undoubtedly some muppet will fill, leaving you in a confined space. The said muppet is then likely to ignore your theatrical gesturing and overtake you as you start pulling off.
What's to stop you sitting in primary, keeping an eye on what is going on behind you and if you notice someone not paying attention give them a theatrical gesture or Airzound to get their attention.
Origamist
Legendary Member
It's my Birthday and I'll squabble if I want to.....
The method is to come to a halt level with the rear nearside quarter of the vehicle immediately ahead. Not giving a chance for his rear nearside passenger to 'door' you. While at a standstill, look round and attract the eye of the driver of the vehicle behind. This can be done by waving your hand round like you have numb fingers, or wiping your eyes. Or clear your nostrils on the road infront of his car.
When the traffic starts to move, look round at him, give a signal and accelerate away into secondary.
Of course, no cyclist does it like this. They ride up the curbside or the offside to the head of the queue where they remerge with the traffic. This infuriates motorists.
Its 'greedy' and 'cheeky'.
Or, they come to a standstill in the middle of the lane directly behind the car ahead hoping the car behind stops.
For this to work, the lane needs to be wide enough to accommodate a motorized vehicle and a cyclist (and of course remembering that some vehicles are considerably wider than others). Many lanes in London and elsewhere (particularly on multi-lane junctions) are narrow and as such this strategy will therefore fail. What’s more, this method of junction negotiation also exposes cyclists to different dangers, i.e. merging back into moving traffic as you start-off and proceed through the junction (which can often be fraught), increased likelihood of left hooks, greater danger from getting hemmed in, (particularly in multi-lane junctions) etc.
That said, as the OP has asked for techniques to avoid a rear ending, this strategy might just do that, but it does so by increasing your exposure to more common types of cyclist/vehicle collision-types. On that basis, it’s not for me.
Sheffield_Tiger
Guru
Is the "rear ender" a case for hi-vis?
(he says cracking open another can of worms)
Reason for saying that in this thread is a potentially nasty (would have been for a cyclist) rear end shunt when I was driving a bright yellow Hyundai Amica. Fairly tall vehicle (for a small car) and a flat back so a slab of bright yellow, waiting in a queue on the outside lane on a dual carriageway.
In my mirror I could see a Golf hurtling towards me..I thought.."he's not slowing...." I knew there would be a collision, there was nowhere for me to escape to, car to my left, railing to the kerb to the right (otherwise I'd have bounced up the kerb sharpish and onto the central reservation)
Watching the car loom up I readied myself for an impact and..SMASH!
Seeing the bright yellow car in front of him he swerved into the nearside lane and instead shortened the boot of the silver mondeo that was actually further back in the queue than I was
(he says cracking open another can of worms)
Reason for saying that in this thread is a potentially nasty (would have been for a cyclist) rear end shunt when I was driving a bright yellow Hyundai Amica. Fairly tall vehicle (for a small car) and a flat back so a slab of bright yellow, waiting in a queue on the outside lane on a dual carriageway.
In my mirror I could see a Golf hurtling towards me..I thought.."he's not slowing...." I knew there would be a collision, there was nowhere for me to escape to, car to my left, railing to the kerb to the right (otherwise I'd have bounced up the kerb sharpish and onto the central reservation)
Watching the car loom up I readied myself for an impact and..SMASH!
Seeing the bright yellow car in front of him he swerved into the nearside lane and instead shortened the boot of the silver mondeo that was actually further back in the queue than I was
downfader
extimus uero philosophus
- Location
- 'ampsheeeer
Dont be so bl**dy stupid. Primary is the position of motorcyclists as well as cyclists at junctions, you may well have had no rear-ending problems but that could be down to a whole wealth of reasons you yourself have not considered ...yes, even the possibility of a high number of good drivers in your area holding off to see what the hell you're up to due to your ambiguous road position
Its my Birthday, I'll be stupid if I want to....
The OP has told us he has been 'rear ended' four times in two years and ALL of those happened when he was in 'Primary'. Three when he came to a halt behind another vehicle.
If I told the OP to put his finger in a hole and a snake bit it, would he put another finger in another hole when I tell him to?
Who's stupid?
And, ( bold text in your remark ) isn't that exacly what we want them to do? Hold off?
Origamist
Legendary Member
It's my Birthday and I'll squabble if I want to.....
I thought you were joking! Happy 50th bday, Jimboalee.
downfader
extimus uero philosophus
- Location
- 'ampsheeeer
Its my Birthday, I'll be stupid if I want to....
The OP has told us he has been 'rear ended' four times in two years and ALL of those happened when he was in 'Primary'. Three when he came to a halt behind another vehicle.
If I told the OP to put his finger in a hole and a snake bit it, would he put another finger in another hole when I tell him to?
Who's stupid?
And, ( bold text in your remark ) isn't that exacly what we want them to do? Hold off?
Most hold off anyway. 99% of what I encounter hold back when I take primary. I never said they did it as an exception
OP
OP
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
A few things.
Origamist has nailed the dilemma I face, but then again he's familiar with the roads I ride on and the drivers I meet.
These are incidents that occur where I really don't have the option to position myself to one side or the other of the flow of traffic (there is space to do this at E&C but it really is an obviously more dangerous option and presents more problems than it solves - I also think it is selfish in that many find driving around there difficult enough without having to deal with cyclists popping out of blind spots).
These have all been impacts with a small speed difference between myself and the car. In general they have been little more than an annoyance to me (the wheels that I replaced I was about to anyway as the rims seemed 'soft' and needed constant truing). I commute on a bike that I've chosen because it can take a few knocks and I'm not too phased by low energy impacts on myself.
Of all the events that have occurred while cycling over the last couple of years these hardly register in terms of fear, danger or injury. They're a little aspect of my cycling that I would like to eliminate but I'll live with it if otherwise it would mean exposing myself to greater dangers.
I think, as downfader and jimboalee touched on, that the WTF factor of standing out by making following drivers unsure of your intentions or suddenly aware of unusual behaviour or gestures that they don't associate with an 'object' in the road does make a difference, however I'm also aware that this ambiguity can prompt some to an aggressive response and I think this was a factor in some of these incidents.
While writing this two thoughts have occurred to me. One is a possible reason as to why I encounter so much aggression the other is a possible solution to rear ending. I shall not stop! In such situations I shall give my space to roll towards the last car in a queue and if need be maintain a track stand. I think fewer people will indulge in accidentally-on-purpose nudges if my feet aren't on the floor and the sight of a cyclist not moving but not falling over either might just catch the brain of the less observant.
Origamist has nailed the dilemma I face, but then again he's familiar with the roads I ride on and the drivers I meet.
These are incidents that occur where I really don't have the option to position myself to one side or the other of the flow of traffic (there is space to do this at E&C but it really is an obviously more dangerous option and presents more problems than it solves - I also think it is selfish in that many find driving around there difficult enough without having to deal with cyclists popping out of blind spots).
These have all been impacts with a small speed difference between myself and the car. In general they have been little more than an annoyance to me (the wheels that I replaced I was about to anyway as the rims seemed 'soft' and needed constant truing). I commute on a bike that I've chosen because it can take a few knocks and I'm not too phased by low energy impacts on myself.
Of all the events that have occurred while cycling over the last couple of years these hardly register in terms of fear, danger or injury. They're a little aspect of my cycling that I would like to eliminate but I'll live with it if otherwise it would mean exposing myself to greater dangers.
I think, as downfader and jimboalee touched on, that the WTF factor of standing out by making following drivers unsure of your intentions or suddenly aware of unusual behaviour or gestures that they don't associate with an 'object' in the road does make a difference, however I'm also aware that this ambiguity can prompt some to an aggressive response and I think this was a factor in some of these incidents.
While writing this two thoughts have occurred to me. One is a possible reason as to why I encounter so much aggression the other is a possible solution to rear ending. I shall not stop! In such situations I shall give my space to roll towards the last car in a queue and if need be maintain a track stand. I think fewer people will indulge in accidentally-on-purpose nudges if my feet aren't on the floor and the sight of a cyclist not moving but not falling over either might just catch the brain of the less observant.
OP
OP
benborp
Guru
- Location
- further from Penge
Arse. I've just remembered the time I was chased into a garage forecourt by a motorist with 'issues'. It was track-standing that set him off. Apparently 'you're not taking it seriously if you don't take your feet out of the stirrups'.
without the benefit of knowing the first thing about the particular circumstances that caused Ben to start this threadIt's my Birthday and I'll squabble if I want to.....
.
Anybody who's been round the Elephant and Castle knows that it is difficult - and, even those of us who have been cycling round it for over 30 years know that there is no sure-fire way to avoid getting hit - you just have to put your arse in the air and accellerate as quickly as possible when the right moment comes. Ben, who is faster than I am, is probably one of the best equipped cyclists to negotiate it. CS7 takes a long and meandering detour to avoid the roundabouts altogether. I would say that the Elephant is the most intimidating junction in London, worse than the Hanger Lane Gyratory or Old Street, and worse even than Archway northbound.
One thing that you could do, Ben, is to write to Roger Griffin at the CTC and Oliver Schick at the LCC, recount your experience and suggest they continue to press Boris Johnson on the restoration of a two-way system, getting rid of the northern roundabout altogether. It's all grist to the mill. As to reducing the risk - you've done that. There is no better way.