Rear Ended Again

[buddha]

To add another perspective. I was front-ended once by a nun.

First of all she pulled out into my path, from a school, 50 metres before a junction, which she almost RLJ'd. Then, at the junction, realising she was in the wrong lane, reversed in to me so she could get in to the left turning lane whose light was green. I couldn't scoot backwards in time as the junction is on a downhill slope and I'd only left about a 1 metre gap.

Did she stop? Nope! I don't think she even realised. Thankfully there was no bike damage, and I let it go - probably because of who she was.

 

[benborp]

Isn't one man's roar another man's squeak? Magnatom?

 

[magnatom]

Isn't one man's roar another man's squeak? Magnatom?

I was waiting for a comment along those lines....

 

[Norm]

The idea of not taking a junction in primary makes me want to roar with frustration.

My solution would be to move to the left, inside the "protection" of stationary cars when they are stationary, but then move out into primary when the traffic starts moving. I will move over to the left and sit level with the NSR wing of the last car in the queue then pull in behind that same car when things set off again.

I don't usually overtake traffic which is queuing at a junction and, if I do, it's more likely to be on the right than the left.

 

[jimboalee]

My solution would be to move to the left, inside the "protection" of stationary cars when they are stationary, but then move out into primary when the traffic starts moving. I will move over to the left and sit level with the NSR wing of the last car in the queue then pull in behind that same car when things set off again.

I don't usually overtake traffic which is queuing at a junction and, if I do, it's more likely to be on the right than the left.

My route home from work is mostly country roads, so immediately I arrived home, I swapped my bike for the BSA 20 and rode into the centre of Birmingham via the infamous 'Lollipop Road', The Stratford Road between Monkspath and the centre of town. Named 'Lollipop Road' due to the number of traffic lights.

I followed Norm's method ( which is not dissimilar to my own ), and IT WORKS. No bumps, no toots, no cars edging past while I'm stood still with foot on curb.
I even changed into a black tee shirt and wore a dark cap to render myself invisible, but the motorists still gave my the road when I started off from my curbside position.

Addmittedly, I didn't have to change my style much. This is the way I usually ride.


Come to Solihull on 18th September where the congregational leader of The Curbside Fundementalists will be burning copies of 'Cyclecraft'.

 

[Origamist]

My solution would be to move to the left, inside the "protection" of stationary cars when they are stationary, but then move out into primary when the traffic starts moving. I will move over to the left and sit level with the NSR wing of the last car in the queue then pull in behind that same car when things set off again.

I don't usually overtake traffic which is queuing at a junction and, if I do, it's more likely to be on the right than the left.

Norm, I'm intrigued: do you do this on your motorbike - if not, why not?

 

[Origamist]

My route home from work is mostly country roads, so immediately I arrived home, I swapped my bike for the BSA 20 and rode into the centre of Birmingham via the infamous 'Lollipop Road', The Stratford Road between Monkspath and the centre of town. Named 'Lollipop Road' due to the number of traffic lights.

I followed Norm's method ( which is not dissimilar to my own ), and IT WORKS. No bumps, no toots, no cars edging past while I'm stood still with foot on curb.
I even changed into a black tee shirt and wore a dark cap to render myself invisible, but the motorists still gave my the road when I started off from my curbside position.

Addmittedly, I didn't have to change my style much. This is the way I usually ride.


Come to Solihull on 18th September where the congregational leader of The Curbside Fundementalists will be burning copies of 'Cyclecraft'.

Wow, fancy that! Jim corroborates a theory very similar to his his own theory of traffic negotiation at junctions and reports back... that... that... that... it works perfectly!

If I were a betting man, I'd lay down a wodge of cash that if Jim tried to follow, say, Joys of Sight's, textbook-like advce, he would be regale us with stotries of abuse, beeps and how he was run over within 200m of his own home.

As we all know, different road postions (the gutter, left-tyre track, middle of the lane etc) can create both similar and different problems for cyclists and, moreover, affect the frequency of certain incident types.

There is no magic bullet here.

 

[Howard]

The idea of not taking a junction in primary makes me want to roar with frustration.

+ 1. I'd say being in secondary on the E&C is a suicidal move.

A bit sad, but I'd recommend avoiding the E&C roundabout if possible - it's a nightmare. Combine a nasty road layout with what seems to be south London's most clueless motoring fraternity and a horror show is the inevitable result.

 

[jimboalee]

Wow, fancy that! Jim corroborates a theory very similar to his his own theory of traffic negotiation at junctions and reports back... that... that... that... it works perfectly!

If I were a betting man, I'd lay down a wodge of cash that if Jim tried to follow, say, Joys of Sight's, textbook-like advce, he would be regale us with stotries of abuse, beeps and how he was run over within 200m of his own home.

As we all know, different road postions (the gutter, left-tyre track, middle of the lane etc) can create both similar and different problems for cyclists and, moreover, affect the frequency incident types.

There is no magic bullet here.

Wow, fancy that! Origamist is alive and well this morning, indicating his theory of traffic negotiation at junctions WORKS TOO.

The question on everyone's lips is...

"Has Benborp been rear-ended again?"

 

[Origamist]

Wow, fancy that! Origamist is alive and well this morning, indicating his theory of traffic negotiation at junctions WORKS TOO.

The question on everyone's lips is...

"Has Benborp been rear-ended again?"

Ahh, it's not like you to miss a more nuanced argument, Jim! I've already conceded that your strategy would probably make it less likely that you will be rear-ended (although you still have to negotiate back into secondary or primary), but your approach comes at a cost - you will face different and more common types of problems at junctions. You need to try to identify and weigh up the likelihood and severity of the risks you face. Oh, and as I've also pointed out, there is often not room to sit to the left of traffic on narrow lanes...

 

[jimboalee]

There are far too many different scenarios to lay down a strict 'this is what you do' list.

One has to judge each situation as it happens and use one's experience to 'Think ahead' as to how the situation may unfold.

 

[Origamist]

There are far too many different scenarios to lay down a strict 'this is what you do' list.

One has to judge each situation as it happens and use one's experience to 'Think ahead' as to how the situation may unfold.

This is very true - and I'm glad that you're starting to sound like me (endless qualifications) - but it appears that we have different default strategies for dealing with queueing and slow moving traffic at junctions. This is the nub of what is being discussed: the "default strategy" - it goes without saying that you can adapt your riding to to suit the road and traffic conditions you find.

 

[jimboalee]

There are far too many different scenarios to lay down a strict 'this is what you do' list.

One has to judge each situation as it happens and use one's experience to 'Think ahead' as to how the situation may unfold.

My experience is that moving to the left whenever possible reduces the risk of being rear-ended.
On resuming riding, taking my 'Fair' place in the stream of traffic is accepted by motorists.

Benborp's experience is two rear-ends per year.
What is he to do?
If he cannot avoid being 'trapped' behind a stationary car when cars are approaching from the rear, maybe he should consider an alternative route where this situation happens less frequntly or not at all. Preferably not at all.

The 'snake in the hole' theory. If there is a chance of being bitten, and you have the option of not putting you finger in the hole, DON'T.

 

[JoysOfSight]

The obvious problem moving out of traffic whenever it stops is that you may not be able to get back in easily, you are adding a large number of 'extra' traffic interactions which could go wrong.

If you've chosen to move to the left just in front of any vehicle so it doesn't rear end you, I'd have thought there's just as much chance the driver won't notice you wobbling back into the queue and if they're quick off the mark, you might even end up getting rear ended cutting back in...

To use the parlance of the debate, you're creating an awful lot of holes to poke your fingers through.

I dunno. At the end of the day I'm fairly relaxed about how people choose to ride, because the only person who really gets hurt in a "cyclist crushed in gutter" incident is the cyclist themselves. I basically ride my bike as if it is a car, and at about the same speed. Everybody seems to know what is going on, what is expected in each interaction.

 

[Jezston]

I guess I'm either very lucky, amazingly skilled, too slow, or don't cycle enough as I've never been involved in a collision. I can't help feeling - is it just a matter of time until I find myself in the back of an ambulance, or is actually being hit a fairly rare thing to happen?

...

This has made me think a lot actually. I think I'll start a poll.