Reflective Tips (Part 2)

[Little yellow Brompton]

Which myth? The myth that says it doesn't stop the car quicker because it doesn't stop a car quicker when it is driven by professional testers?

I would contend that it does stop the car quicker if you drive like a twat in a 2.5 tonne vehicle and can't use the brakes properly or maybe you are just Mr or Mrs Normal and you crap yourself and panic-brake when you actually need to stop in an emergency.

But, whatever myth you are talking about is missing the point by an even greater margin than Greg.

If you contend that I suggest you stick only to dry, high Mu surfaces, you may then be right. However for any surface that is suboptimal ( bumps , greasy, damp, snow, wet, not recently brushed, overbanding, muddy, oily, rubber debris, dusty) you would be far better off remembering that ABS can be rembered as ABility to Steer.

 

[Norm]

Yeah, ok. Do Greek cows μ?

 

[gaz]

Yes and no, Bromptonite.

All you get on the tin from ABS is the releasing of brake pressure on any wheel which locks. Nominally, this simply allows you to retain control of the direction of the vehicle while slowing it (an option you lack while skidding).

However, many drivers have just one reaction to a perceived emergency: They stand on the middle pedal with every gramme of force their right leg can muster and tense every muscle in their body.

The notion that ABS simply allows the driver to retain control of direction under heavy braking is based on tests carried out with professional test drivers. Most of us who drive are not Juan Pablo Montoya.... Or, more to the point, we probably are.

Pre-ABS, cadence braking had to be taught. To almost every mortal who sits behind the wheel, it is hugely counter-intuitive.

Norm is not perpetuating a myth, he is noting a motoring reality.

Since when was Juan Pablo Montoya a professional* driver? he may well have been a Formula 1 driver (not a successful one) and now drives NASCAR ( a driving sport which does't use brakes heavily).

* A joke on the fact that he isn't that good.

 

[BentMikey]

At the end of the day cycling IS more dangerous than driving.

Only if you consider only the collision risk. Overall, it's less dangerous than driving. Regular cyclists have 2 years more life expectancy than the UK average.

 

[Bicycle]

Most of us who drive are not Juan Pablo Montoya.... Or, more to the point, we probably are.

Since when was Juan Pablo Montoya a professional* driver? he may well have been a Formula 1 driver (not a successful one) and now drives NASCAR ( a driving sport which does't use brakes heavily).

* A joke on the fact that he isn't that good.

Ha ha ha ha ha.... I'd tried to introduce a note of ambiguity in the common perception of Montoya's as a driving skills in my original post.

I'd thought him an entertaining driver, full of verve and spirit - although I'm not an F1 or open-wheel enthusiast. I'm pretty sure that in truth he is really rather a good driver. Very few people have ever matched his record across several codes.

It's quite British in some way to say he 'isn't that good'. I remember Tim Henman replying to a question about whether he felt he'd somehow failed. Henman's reply was that he'd take that comment seriously if it came from one of the nine people in the world ranked higher than him.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Point missed there, Greg. Let me try again whilst avoiding externalities to try and help the focus.

The smaller car might not be in the accident so it doesn't need the perceived secondary safety features.

Norm. It is common courtesy, I feel, to point out when you EDIT: a post to the extent you have in the one above.

I 'get' the point you are trying to make; but such 'what ifs' strike me as of little utility. The smaller car might be slower, and thus not be at the scene of the accident to participate, the tank driver might be more skilled a driver than the average Micra owner, and know how to use their ABS to steer around the collision, et cetera.

Personally I drive a car where the only safety feature is a seat belt. I think it tends to concentrate the mind.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

If you contend that I suggest you stick only to dry, high Mu surfaces, you may then be right. However for any surface that is suboptimal ( bumps , greasy, damp, snow, wet, not recently brushed, overbanding, muddy, oily, rubber debris, dusty) you would be far better off remembering that ABS can be rembered as ABility to Steer.

Most drivers today passed their tests before the advent of ABS. Most drivers have not got a clue what it is there for, how to take advantage off it, nor do they realise the much larger steering moments that are needed to steer a car in a situation where the ABS is operational. Topically, a good few ABS implementations don't work on snow or ice at low speeds.

Most drivers with ABS just stamp on the brakes as hard as they can and plough straight on into whatever will kill or maim them. (said my traffic cop mate y'day) They haven't been taught how to use it.

 

[Herzog]

Do Greek cows μ?

Only if they η π (said with an Italian accent).

 

[Bicycle]

Well... this thread seems to have run its course.

I've always cycled after dark in black clothing.

I particularly like my black cycling jacket, although I accept that it reflects badly on other cyclists.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Well... this thread seems to have run its course.

I've always cycled after dark in black clothing.

I particularly like my black cycling jacket, although I accept that it reflects badly on other cyclists.

And everything else.

 

[gaz]

Well I have asked G-Zero several times for the settings, I even sent him a personal message with my e-mail address so he can send me the pictures and I can check what they are..

So far I have to say it is inconclusive, one person shows one result someone shows another...

 

[G-Zero]

We don't have situations where we need reflectives. We have situations where we need better drivers.

Couldn't agree more Greg, but until such time as society reaches this Utopia, I won't be binning my reflectives, or my hi-viz, or my Magicshine front light or my hi-intensity rear flasher, or my LED front and rear helmet lights, or my jacket mounted night vision light, nor will I be letting my guard down on the roads any time soon.

 

[G-Zero]

For the record; I use reflectives and lights at night. Very powerful lights. I even use the lights during daylight. (I draw the line at fluorescing these days though). Why do I use them? Because it makes me feel better. But I don't kid myself it offers me any real protection from drivers who aren't looking. And the ones who are looking? I don't need much protection from them.

Reflecting like the Hubble telescope, whilst lit up like a fluorescent Christmas tree makes no difference if the driver isn't looking.

I too use my lights during the day and you are correct about those drivers that do not look, will not see you no matter what, however this type of driver is thankfully in the minority and the longer I am visible to them and from the greatest distance increases my chances of them eventually seeing me. There has to be a limit to how far someone can drive without looking and hopefully they will exit the road before they get anywhere near me.

(Anecdote alert) - A19 several years ago, I saw a motorist go past 3 traffic cars at a collision scene, lane closure, all with rear chevrons and rear red/blue flashing strobes illuminated, before crashing in to the back of the 4th car (prior to the lane being coned off).

As rare as these people are, they do share the roads with us and will pose a threat no matter what we wear or how we ride, but other than sitting at home, wrapped in cotton wool, what choice do we have other than to continue in our efforts to make ourselves as visible as possible.

Pure assumption, but exactly how visible each of us wants to be will depend to varying degrees on previous experiences and working environments etc.

Ps. My new Altura Evo jacket is supposed to have a better quality zip and I'll be the first to complain if any of them go

 

[G-Zero]

Well I have asked G-Zero several times for the settings, I even sent him a personal message with my e-mail address so he can send me the pictures and I can check what they are..

Gaz,

PM replied to and I'm happy for the content to be copied across to this thread if you wish.

 

[Bicycle]

Well I have asked G-Zero several times for the settings, I even sent him a personal message with my e-mail address so he can send me the pictures and I can check what they are..

So far I have to say it is inconclusive, one person shows one result someone shows another...

I think most road users (and many on this thread) use the data provided by their eyes when driving in poor light. Drivers appreciate the use of reflective surfaces by non-drivers, for reasons I've aleady given.

We all admire your emprical approach Gaz, but those of us looking for cyclists through a windscreen, pitch night, fog and rain appreciate the added dimension offered by reflectives.

I'm sure camera settings are huge fun and make those long, winter evenings fly past, but they seem not to be the key issue on this forum when deciding about the merits or otherwise of reflectives.