oldroadman
Veteran
- Location
- Ubique
Couldn't or wouldn't? Or is he just bandwagon jumping?
As for the Skins sueing business, just a poor attempt at a publicity stunt - I suppose it works because now more people will have heard of them.
Reforming the UCI
- Thread starter Flying_Monkey
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Couldn't or wouldn't? Or is he just bandwagon jumping?
As for the Skins sueing business, just a poor attempt at a publicity stunt - I suppose it works because now more people will have heard of them.
thom
____
- Location
- The Borough
This is why Skins are suing - if you can work it out, let me know !
We’d have to withdraw because these f—–s have f—-d it up - quote Jaimie Fuller!
thom
____
- Location
- The Borough
We should create an internet meme, UCI / McQuaid / Verbruggen statements to sue over and the required front page cycling journal retraction :We’d have to withdraw because these f—–s have f—-d it up - quote Jaimie Fuller!
"The f**kers at the UCI did not indeed f**k it up"
Just another interview where Mr Pound helps to underline his first name is so appropriate for him!
Perhaps Dick forgets who are all on the IOC Members list and Committees and what they do!
Dick now wishes us to believe that WADA and not CAS are best organisation to help UCI usher in change after their own spectacular failures in catching doping athletes. Not content with making himself a laughing stock he wants us to believe the UCI decision to reach out to CAS is also potentially a corrupt one!
He's eminently quotable...We’d have to withdraw because these f—–s have f—-d it up - quote Jaimie Fuller!
"If that f—-r had done that, 95 percent of people would think the sun shines out his ass" Talking about Armstrong 'fessing up. It's true, it's only about 50%* now.
*unscientific study based on Daily Mail comments
Just a point for all those who poured scorn on my posts/views within the 'In praise of USADA' thread and jumped to the defence of WADA and Mr D Pound.
Any of you wish to leap to their defence now after hearing from WADA ex Medical Director and his views on WADA not being appropriate and basically MR D Pound as well as President at the time of the issues?
Sport as a whole needs Root and Branch reforms and not just UCI and as I said at the time and for anyone who harboured hope that WADA/USADA etc are carrying out ‘the good fight’ with the same views and morals we have need to seriously think again.
Cycling is under the microscope just now but that doesn’t make it worse than the rest it just means we are currently more visual and as we have a heritage of outing dopers it makes it an easy target to raise anti-doping agencies profiles.
FIFA have ignored all the anti-doping requirements until now and have just started to confirm that Blood Passports shall be phased in, Tennis is now just starting to ehance testing regimes due to the Spanish affairs, Track and Field has probably the worst history in Sport in catching dopers and has done NO retrospective testing like Cycling has gone through! WHY?
Try and see through the HYPE because the whole system has serious issues and all we see from it are Sports Politics in actions.
What has practically/positively been achieved and put into place just now from finding out what we already knew from the past?
What has all the Main Players practically/positively done to establish we are now in a better place without issue/argument?
What has been set in motion to ensure the past does not repeat itself just now?
I suggest the answer to all above is NOTHING.
Take the Police Actions out of all of this and where do you think we would have been just now? Yep same place we left behind because no one was going to upset the gravy train!
OP
OP
Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
Orbytal, it's not necessarily the content of your posts that most people had a problem with, it's the fact that they sometimes come across like some kind of explosive typing diarrhea!
Plus your assumption that anyone else who has a slightly different view than you is a victim of 'HYPE' (your capitals). I happen to disagree with your views on WADA. It's doing as much as one could expect given the almost complete lack of cooperation from some sports (tennis is one of the worst of all... ). And I don't think anyone disagrees that in many ways cycling has gone a lot further than those sports, even the UCI itself is seen as rather progressive compared to other sports governing bodies (which is probably why McQuaid genuinely doesn't think he's done anything wrong - he moves in a world where he's the bold radical...). But the Armstrong case is also demonstrating to those other sports what happens when you go down this route: your heroes get revealed for that they are, the marketing value of the sport drops etc etc. So it's hardly surprising that there are contradictory impulses here. But this is a pro-cycling forum so that's what we discuss...
@Flying_Monkey thanks for the inappropriate comments on my posts and the emoticon which my kids will appreciate!
Also thank you for the full support you are offereing to WADA despite the recent condemnation. They have been branded inappropriate to lead Doping by their own man which is a concern on many different levels so I would like to know what they are doing, in your opinion, that is helping especially WRT Cycling?
I did make a number of points and look forward to reading your views on these, WRT Cycling, which you have obviously omitted to respond to in your reply.
On the basis of keeping on topic I would point out my post is very much centred in Cycling however I would like to ask how you will validate your abusive comments c/w emoticon as being relevant to the topic and/or Cycling?
Also thank you for the full support you are offereing to WADA despite the recent condemnation. They have been branded inappropriate to lead Doping by their own man which is a concern on many different levels so I would like to know what they are doing, in your opinion, that is helping especially WRT Cycling?
I did make a number of points and look forward to reading your views on these, WRT Cycling, which you have obviously omitted to respond to in your reply.
On the basis of keeping on topic I would point out my post is very much centred in Cycling however I would like to ask how you will validate your abusive comments c/w emoticon as being relevant to the topic and/or Cycling?
OP
OP
Flying_Monkey
Recyclist
- Location
- Odawa
Come off it, that was nowhere near abusive. And the emoticon indicated it was said with humorous intent - that is the point of emoticons: to give cues that are missing in non-verbal communication.
On WADA, let's make it clear what is going on. One ex-officer has made some claims, which have been disputed by WADA. Much more than that, we don't know at this point. They are new allegations AFAIK and I haven't seen any corroboration for them. Doesn't mean they aren't correct, but they could also be outright lies, or more likely a matter of the interpretation of particular events that isn't shared by others involved.I don't think you have anything like evidence that WADA or USADA are not committed to 'fighting the good fight'. You are exaggerating way beyond the limits of what we know.
The wider question that this all relates to is who should be responsible for the anti-doping regime in cycling. A lot of the kinds of people who I have respect for in cycling have argued that this should be taken away from the UCI and given entirely to WADA. Clearly there are politics going on here in response, to try to undermine WADA's credibility so that the UCI can preserve this function despite its manifest failure. At the same time, others like Pat McQuaid have argued that the UCI's failure is already being remedied within the UCI - the biological passport in particular, which is clearly a major advance (although I wouldn't be the first person to point out that it is simply is not being used in the way that it could be).
So my solution is a combination of reform of the UCI (which is why I started the other thread on that issue, there's a lot more on how in that thread from various people) and the removal of anti-doping from the UCI (and indeed from all similar bodies) and placing it, properly funded and supported within WADA and its subsidiary agencies, which were set up to do exactly this, independently of any individual sport's management.
You spend a lot of time telling everyone else that they don't get it - what's your solution?
WRT the bio passport; it showed at the time of his comeback in 2009 that Armstrong's blood values were worthy of investigation after his haematocrit went up instead of down during the Giro and was different again at the TdF. Noexplanations were given or indeed sought by the UCI AFAIK. As FM says, the passport can be a great tool but only if used properly.
@Flying_Monkey thanks for clearing up my misconceptions with myself, I shall check with you next time I have similar dilemma of thought so I know what to think. On emoticons thanks for the lesson and the social interactive value it offers I must have missed that memo.
On WADA let’s also be clear it was THE Medical Director for 10 Years who was responsible for the whole Doping Strategy and Policy that ALL IOC associated federation’s etc use. This is not just some Office Jock he was at the Centre of what they do which you wish to conveniently suggest to suit your argument!
Thanks however for clearing it all up that he may be lying, making it sensationalist or maybe he is a fantasist? If he is now why would he not have been all the way through his 10 years in Office making them as corrupt as all the rest or is just now he has inherited these traits?
He is placing WADA side by side with all the other IOC associated firms and surprisingly they are no better or worse, all bad basically!
Your comments about WADA taking over doping in Cycling show a lack of understanding of Sports Politics and Sports Business; your suggestion quite simply cannot be achieved. WADA cover all Sport and would have to take it on for everyone in and out of competition. The Political structure in Sports does not facilitate it and WADA could not afford to do it that is why the bulk is done by Federations etc. WADA role was set out the rules and allow them to be implemented but they like to meddle and get it wrong.
Have you never asked yourself WHY Basketball, Football, Tennis etc. have not been forced to take up WADA rules, all wealthy Sports not even pushed hard by WADA? Money talks that why.
Reform? If you read back I have already stated what I would do so maybe you should have taken some time to read it instead of attacking first!
A reminder for you so you don’t need to tax yourself too much is WADA placed in the hands of Michael Ashenden who would head up and govern the roles, responsibilities and requirements for testing strategy and implementation. I would get rid of everyone else from their past and have a new Team to MA requirements in place. I would have a whole new UCI Management Team in place with people who actually get on with the new WADA Team.
I would also add a strict requirement that there would never be any IOC members as part of WADA at any time and the most important rule I would pass is could never be based in Switzerland or rely on Swiss Law. Scots Law would be best and allow full access and openness of its operations. As soon as you do that all the hiding by IOC, FIFA, UCI et al are removed and they all become more accountable under sensible legal requirements.
So if we do all that then UCI etc become more liable and all WADA need to do is audit the testing regimes for compliance.
The solution is not a simple UCI one it covers everyone but you cannot do that so look at the weakest link and undertake a huge reform there and apply it to add new powers.
On WADA let’s also be clear it was THE Medical Director for 10 Years who was responsible for the whole Doping Strategy and Policy that ALL IOC associated federation’s etc use. This is not just some Office Jock he was at the Centre of what they do which you wish to conveniently suggest to suit your argument!
Thanks however for clearing it all up that he may be lying, making it sensationalist or maybe he is a fantasist? If he is now why would he not have been all the way through his 10 years in Office making them as corrupt as all the rest or is just now he has inherited these traits?
He is placing WADA side by side with all the other IOC associated firms and surprisingly they are no better or worse, all bad basically!
Your comments about WADA taking over doping in Cycling show a lack of understanding of Sports Politics and Sports Business; your suggestion quite simply cannot be achieved. WADA cover all Sport and would have to take it on for everyone in and out of competition. The Political structure in Sports does not facilitate it and WADA could not afford to do it that is why the bulk is done by Federations etc. WADA role was set out the rules and allow them to be implemented but they like to meddle and get it wrong.
Have you never asked yourself WHY Basketball, Football, Tennis etc. have not been forced to take up WADA rules, all wealthy Sports not even pushed hard by WADA? Money talks that why.
Reform? If you read back I have already stated what I would do so maybe you should have taken some time to read it instead of attacking first!
A reminder for you so you don’t need to tax yourself too much is WADA placed in the hands of Michael Ashenden who would head up and govern the roles, responsibilities and requirements for testing strategy and implementation. I would get rid of everyone else from their past and have a new Team to MA requirements in place. I would have a whole new UCI Management Team in place with people who actually get on with the new WADA Team.
I would also add a strict requirement that there would never be any IOC members as part of WADA at any time and the most important rule I would pass is could never be based in Switzerland or rely on Swiss Law. Scots Law would be best and allow full access and openness of its operations. As soon as you do that all the hiding by IOC, FIFA, UCI et al are removed and they all become more accountable under sensible legal requirements.
So if we do all that then UCI etc become more liable and all WADA need to do is audit the testing regimes for compliance.
The solution is not a simple UCI one it covers everyone but you cannot do that so look at the weakest link and undertake a huge reform there and apply it to add new powers.
@Flying_Monkey & richp are you forgetting these passports are also available to WADA regional teams to use so the not using it properly applies to WADA as well as the rest!
It is clear to me that failure is across the board and not within the headlines of press and media. They have all failed and so far we have seen nothing new to show a big change and UCI can in fact claim greater credance than nearly all other Federations so Pat's argument will be we are better by results.
WADA make the rules but dont apply them themselves when it suits them. All IOC affiliated sports are meant to do the same but they dont WHY?
It is clear to me that failure is across the board and not within the headlines of press and media. They have all failed and so far we have seen nothing new to show a big change and UCI can in fact claim greater credance than nearly all other Federations so Pat's argument will be we are better by results.
WADA make the rules but dont apply them themselves when it suits them. All IOC affiliated sports are meant to do the same but they dont WHY?
It was nice of you to find the time to post however! You may want to try and shake off that self pity medal you want to wear it only gets others down.
Remember to lift your head off your chest when you are out on your bike however.
