Repentence required - 2021 Genesis Croix de Fer 20 Flat Bar

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wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
This post is presented as a stark reminder that as much as we may like to think our struggles have been overcome, N+1 never sleeps and is always lurking; patiently waiting for an opportunity to strike..

Evidently the universe felt I need another bike and I now find myself in possession of this:

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I'm not going to go too deep down the rabbithole on this one as there are many more pressing matters to attend to and I'm not even sure I'll be keeping the bike.

However, as always I feel it necessary to court the validation of the CC hive mind and maybe repay this privilege by feeding some of the fruits of my research / experiences back into the ether so that others might benefit. Or at least get five minutes of entertainment from my latest folly..


Since its introduction in around 2009 the originally drop-bar-only jack-of-all-trades Croix de Fer range has steadly expanded; with the introduction of a flat bar variant in 2020. This was based on the entry-level CdF 10 model using Genesis' propriatory Mjolnir steel for the frame and fitted with a Sora 3x9 drivetrain.

2021 saw the CdF 10 FB remain much unchanged other than a new colour scheme, and also saw the introduction of a higher-end flat bar CdF 20 variant with Reynolds 725 frame and a mixture of 2x10 Tiagra and GRX. 2021 also saw some wider-reaching changes to the whole range - including the frame becoming festooned with mounting bosses and the seatstays being subjected to a bit more squashy-squashy for greater tyre clearance.

These models remained unchanged until the 2025 model year when everything changed substantially with new frame geometry, the CdF 20's frame material being demoted to Mjolnir and both of the flat bar variants now getting 1x drivetrains.. none of these being changes for the better IMO but this is somewhat subjective.


Until I was educated I'd largely looked down my nose at the flat bar variants as watered-down offerings for those who couldn't hack the drops we all know define a proper gravel bike...

However, this changed when I learned that even the lowly CdF 10 FB gets proper hydraulic disc brakes - while the drop versions of the 10 and 20 have grotty cable-operated calipers and you have to push to more than twice the price of the CdF 10 FB and part with north of £2k for a CdF 30 if you want hydro discs and drop bars.

While commuting through two winters on the rim-braked Brompton has driven home the advantages of discs, it's also softened me to the advantages of straight bars in an urban environment where responsiveness and an upright, informed posture are beneficial for the negotiation of surprise obstacles.

These revelations, plus the fact that I'll soon be moving closer to work so will be commuting on a full-size bike suddently made the CdF FB seem like a very appealing proposition. I started sniffing around - just for research purposes, you understand - and this little-used example popped up; not a million miles away and at a reasonable price.


Since its acquisition I've done a few small jobs - replacing a broken cable barrel adjustor, removing the sticky factory gak from the chain / drivetrain and of course waxing the chain. The RD's limit screws / cable setup have been tweaked and a few of the components have had a few small scuffs touched up (those on the frame might get looked at if I put my hand in my pocket for paint). I've also deburred the typically poorly-finished seatpost clamp, cleaned the associated components and refitted with fresh grease.

I did look at re-routing the gear cables as the shifters are currently plumbed into the cable stops on the same side of the frame; making the cable rads unnecessary tight. On my Fuji I've run them to opposite sides to increase the rad and remove cable rub (crossing the cables underneath the downtube) however this is complicated on the CdF as the cables would foul the front bottle mount on the underside of the downtube... so for now this has been left.


After all this I took the bike for a quick spin round the village and I'm... ambivalent.

On the up-side I'm impressed with most of the components. Despite the brakes being Shimano's boggo entry-level MT200s they're fantastic; powerful, smooth and predictable. The Tiagra shifters are snappy, crisp and precise; feeling very well put together thanks to the bulk of their construction apparently being cast alloy rather than plastic. The frame and saddle are familarly comfortable, the grips well-fitting and solid, while typically everything feels well put-together.

On the down-side the long (compared to drops) bars make the steering feel somewhat ponderous and slow - perhaps better suited to stability off-road than quick changes of direction on the tarmac. On top of that the tyres feel sluggish and a bit vague; again probably due to their pronounced tread which would be more at home on rougher terrain.

While I like the toe cages that came on the basic pedals supplied with the bike there's noticeable overlap with the front tyre - not a problem during yesterday's brief use but I know it's there and would obviously only be made worse by fitment of the obligatory mudguards. Finally, despite the GRX RX600 46/30 crankset being Shimano's lowest-geared "gravel" offering, it's still too bloody high and (especially in the face of aching legs and a headwind) I found myself constantly cross-chaining to the low end of the cassette whilst in the big ring..


As it stands I'm unsure where to go from here. On paper this latest CdF could be a great utility bike on a largely a city environment. However, it seems that in order to achieve its full potential in this role it would need some changes making which all cost money, and I don't want to fall into the trap of chucking hundreds at something that I need to be able to use in all weathers / leave locked up without having a panic attack.

Running the Genesis as a utility bike would also mean it replacing my faithful Fuji as the main utility hack; perhaps not be a bad thing as it could stay at the homestead for use there, although I'd feel both a bit guilty deserting it as well as less keen on using the so much more tidy and overtly expensive / thievable bike for shopping etc.

Also in terms of outright usability the Genesis isn't universally the victor as I still much prefer the Fuji's easy-going 3x9 drivetrain to the hamstrung and IMO still absurdly highly-geared 2x10 setup on the CdF.


While in itself the bike wasn't a bad buy I do feel like a bit of a muppet for its fairly impulse purchase; at a time when I have a lot of other stuff I should be doing / things that need money throwing at them from my already eviscerated savings. I'm currently on the fence as to whether to hang onto the bike and persevere, or cut my losses and move it on..
 
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All uphill

Still rolling along
Location
Somerset
Nice bike, and I'm glad to hear you may be escaping from your rural interlude.

I'm thinking more and more about flat bar bikes with hydraulic discs - the only thing that puts me off is the 'nickability'.

Sounds like an inch off the ends of the bars and some smooth tyres would transform your bike.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.
 

sevenfourate

Devotee of OCD
LOVE that ! Would make fab upgrade from my current flat-bar'd, unsprung fork'd, fat tyre'd Winter rider (Carrera Subway) ive been riding.
Thats a really pretty, decent specc'd and useable real-World rider IMO.

I'll absolutely be watching how it progresses and how it 'grabs you'.
 

Jameshow

Veteran
LOVE that ! Would make fab upgrade from my current flat-bar'd, unsprung fork'd, fat tyre'd Winter rider (Carrera Subway) ive been riding.
Thats a really pretty, decent specc'd and useable real-World rider IMO.

I'll absolutely be watching how it progresses and how it 'grabs you'.

Hey I'm in front of the queue!! 🤣

Lovely bike - are flat bar cdf the same geometry as drop bar bikes?

Why not drop the front mech and go to 46 / 11-46?

Oxfords not that hilly irrc!
I'd leave a bike at the homestead - that's what I do!
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Nice bike, and I'm glad to hear you may be escaping from your rural interlude.

I'm thinking more and more about flat bar bikes with hydraulic discs - the only thing that puts me off is the 'nickability'.

Sounds like an inch off the ends of the bars and some smooth tyres would transform your bike.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

Thanks and yes; I'm very much looking forward to escape although currently getting bogged down in the particulars of furnishing / equipping the place. I suspect I'll be living squat-style for the forseeable whilst every single tiny necessity is tirelessly researched and acquired..

Have you experienced hydros on anything else? As much as I consider myself a luddite and reject a lot of new trendy "advances" I'm 100% converted to hydro discs.. and while maybe not ideal if flinging one's self off the side of a mountain I'm hugely impressed by how good these ones are for something that can be had for less than £50 a set.

The only unpalatable thing I've found about the brakes so far is the use of split pins to retain the pads, which seems unnecessarily crap.. I wonder if they can be replaced with summot better.

I agree about the theft element - not just from the perspective of "new, shiny and obviously of value" but I also wonder if scallies have more of a taste for flat-bar bikes due to wider appeal / greater ease of moving them on along with probable greater user-friendlyness making them preferable as a smack-chariot if being nicked by the intended end-user.

I can certainly see how this bike could be transformed to better suit my needs; I'm just not sure I want to spend the money to do it. Yes, lopping a bit off the bars would probably help (although being a tart this would have to be done to a replacement set to avoid bothering the originals).

I run 37mm Conti Sport Contact slicks on my CdF 30 which roll very well, although might be a bit too hairy in winter. Even if going with a more rounded, budget-friendly / utility-focussed tyre like the Schwalbe Delta Cruiser I have on (one end of) my Fuji, that's likely another £40-50 in rubber.

On top of that I'll need mudguards and a rear rack, so probably the fat end of a ton on those bits when all's said and done.

I'm happy with the drivetrain, with the exception of the crankset which is the real fly in the ointment and pretty much echoes my issues with the 105 setup on my '30 - narrow Q-factor, 172.5mm arms and sh*t ratios. The lack of possible solutions is made even more infuriatingly confounded by the horrible compatability issues resulting from Shimano's divergence of standards between MTB and road setups.

I could get a road-centric triple by fitting a Tiagra 4703 shifter, derailleur and crankset - although this would still have the narrower chainline, fiddle Q-factor (which could be aided with pedal extensions since I'd be running wider flat pedals with spanner fitment) and sub-optimal ratios (50/39/30)... this probably being more flexible than what I have now but still lacking at the low end. This would probably set me back £100-200 depending on parts source and condition.

An alternative would be to swap to Shimano's only remaining premium triple crankset (that's probably soon to be extinct in the face of CUES) - the touring-focused Deore XT T8000 and its lovely 48/36/26 ratios - however these aren't particularly cheap at north of £200 RRP / £140 cheapest I've found...

Plus I'd need £20-30 for a new BB, maybe £40 for the FD and £60ish for the shifter. Of course I couldn't stand to have mis-matched shifters so that'd be another £60 for the RD shifter, and thanks to the incompatable pull ratios a new RD too at £65ish.. then if I wanted matching brakes that'd be another £100-200..

Objectively this route really appeals as going flat-bar with this groupset seems the only way to achieve a triple of appropriate ratios with hydraulic brakes.. however such a change would end up costing near what I paid for the bike and would doubtless make me even less inclined to leave it locked up outside the shops.

The more I think about it, the more tempting it is however; knowning that the now-defunct T8000 groupset represents the last opportunity to obtain my ideal gearing setup (albeit with flat bars) before Shimano purge their lineup of arguably the best crank format that's ever graced the face of the earth..

Anyway, thanks again for your input and pleae don't feel the need to reply to all of that - it wasn't all aimed at you, just precipitated by your reply.

I think I'm going to take some time to think about how best to extracate myself from the myre my impulsiveness finds me in today..



LOVE that ! Would make fab upgrade from my current flat-bar'd, unsprung fork'd, fat tyre'd Winter rider (Carrera Subway) ive been riding.
Thats a really pretty, decent specc'd and useable real-World rider IMO.

I'll absolutely be watching how it progresses and how it 'grabs you'.
Cheers - tbh sadly I think Genesis are getting left behind with some questionable design choices on their gravel bikes (doggedly sticking to QRs on the lower-end models, for example) however considering this example more as a posh hybrid rather than flat-bar gravel bike makes a lot more sense in my mind.. and when I picked it up I did wonder how it would compare to a similarly-priced new Subway.

If you're arsed last time I looked Winstanley bikes still have stock of this model at £1k, and the lower-specced / evidentely slower-selling CdF 10 variant at £800. I think Biketart also have the latter at the same price and I've had good experiences with them in the past so would probably take this route..

Don't get too excited about progression on my part - I suspect for the time being it'll go back in the shed while I have a word about my spending and lack of self control; and try to concentrate on arguably more important things - like finding something to sleep on :tongue:
 
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OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Hey I'm in front of the queue!! 🤣

Lovely bike - are flat bar cdf the same geometry as drop bar bikes?

Why not drop the front mech and go to 46 / 11-46?

Oxfords not that hilly irrc!
I'd leave a bike at the homestead - that's what I do!

:tongue:

Thanks and yes - IIRC the frames are exactly the same as their drop-bar counterparts other than the colour scheme. In practice the bars change the character quite significantly - I think there are possibly more spacers on the steerer tube (so maybe the fork is cut longer too...?) and while the stem length is the typical 100mm, the bars have a bit of back-sweep on them (although obviously are wider so some of this will be countered by the rider leaning further forward due to their wider hand-span).

Thanks for the suggestion re. the drivetrain, however I have a pathalogical hatred of 1x setups; especially on a utility bike where total gear range and low bottome end should be king..
 
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OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Looks a good bike for a bit of do it all, rather than out and out fast. Good on paths, canal etc. I like it.
Thanks and yes; that was my justification too. That said I suspect the bars might prove problematic on some of the narrower stretches of to paths compared to more compact drops..
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
Thanks and yes; that was my justification too. That said I suspect the bars might prove problematic on some of the narrower stretches of to paths compared to more compact drops..

You'll be fine - not had any issues with my 720mm MTB bars ! Might be worth getting some Ergon grips if you decide to keep it, those with the stubby bar end - very comfy and give you an extra hand position.
 

Jenkins

Legendary Member
Location
Felixstowe
That is rather nice :thumbsup:

Some slicks or much less agreesively knobbled tyres, bar ends or Ergon style grips and possible larger platform pedals (unless you plan on clipless) to go with your required mudguards & rack is about all that needs to make a bloody good all round bike. If you find the bars a bit wide, just cut them down to the required size (mine are both 600mm).

Interesting to see that the geometry on the flat bar is the same as on the drop bar bikes - I've had hybrids/flat bars and just found them oddly sized, but my two current flat bar bikes are built up from a road and a cyclocross frame and just fit right.
 
OP
OP
wafter

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
You'll be fine - not had any issues with my 720mm MTB bars ! Might be worth getting some Ergon grips if you decide to keep it, those with the stubby bar end - very comfy and give you an extra hand position.
Thanks - I find it can get a bit cramped on the tow paths round here (am generally OK passing MTBs on the brompton but suspect I'd struggle if we were both running massive bars) but can see how it goes I suppose :smile:

I do like the existing grips and am trying to keep budget in mind (he says as he mulls dropping £400 on a whole new groupset :shy: ) but the Ergons have caught my eye in the past and I'll definitely keep them in mind if I find the bars restrictive. That said I've done decent distances (relatively speaking) on the Brompton and not found the lack of hand position choice problematic.


@wafter why oh why
You are a crazy man
But we are all with you
Thanks for stepping up to do what's necessary - I now feel suitably admonishied, absolved and free to crack on p*ssing my money away with gay abandon :becool:


That is rather nice :thumbsup:

Some slicks or much less agreesively knobbled tyres, bar ends or Ergon style grips and possible larger platform pedals (unless you plan on clipless) to go with your required mudguards & rack is about all that needs to make a bloody good all round bike. If you find the bars a bit wide, just cut them down to the required size (mine are both 600mm).

Interesting to see that the geometry on the flat bar is the same as on the drop bar bikes - I've had hybrids/flat bars and just found them oddly sized, but my two current flat bar bikes are built up from a road and a cyclocross frame and just fit right.
Thanks :smile:

Yes, I was thinking of maybe fitting some less aggressive rubber and keeping these tyres for winter use as I suspect they'd be pretty decent when it gets slushy. I do have a spare wheelset for the CdF 30 with multi-tyre use in mind, however irritatingly it's unlikely to fit as it's got through-axle hubs rather than the QRs on this bike (again, ffs Genesis!).

Guards and a rack are definitely a must; although as a per my ominous block of text above I'm not keen on the crankset and that's rapidly leading me down the road of a new groupset too. I nearly scored a free rack on Wednesday as one of the shops I pass in the city had binned a load; however unfortunately the only one that looked worth having was missing a stay :sad:

I think conventional wisdom suggests that frames for flat-bar bikes should have a longer reach to account for the fact that the bars sit (pretty much) exclusively in-line with the clamp in the stem, rather than extending forwards as drops do when in the drops / on the hoods.

That said I seem to have a fairly short reach so anything that shortens what I often find excessively long on most bikes is welcome - perhaps you might be similarly proportioned?

As an aside apparently the new (2025) CdF bikes have really queer geometry - while I initially thought this was an error, apparently the reach on the XS and S frames is longer than that on the M in order to minimise toe overlap. Allegedly this is compensated for by shortened stem length but still sounds counter-intuitive and less than ideal. Surely by this point it would have been better to have gone with 650B wheels instead..?

In other news I had a quick razz on the CdF again yesterday with more favourable results. The ride felt less draggy than last time (probably thanks to the lesser wind and reduced fatigue on my part) however the tyres' resistance to roll was evidenced by their constant road buzz and they're clearly going to be less efficient on tarmac than something with less pronounced tread.

I did find myself on a tiny section of tame trails and the bike really came into its own - the tyres feeling really confidence inspiring on grass, hard-pack and loose / dusty but smoothish mud. The wide bars felt a lot more appropriate on such surfaces too and in this regard I think the bike really feels a lot like an old school rigid MTB...

Unsurprisingly in this environment the bike felt more controllable and sure-footed than I recally my drop-bar, slick-tyred CdF feeling; however that's not really a criticism since the latter was intended for road / light off-road use so seems perfectly fit for that purpose.

I feel like I'm still getting used to the bars but am considering shortening them maybe to the midpoint between the 420-440mm drops on my '30 and where they are now.. I suppose it must be remembered that while the full width of the bars can define the hand-span on drop bars (when on the drops or hoods) on straight bars the centres of the hands are situated maybe 50mm inboard from the ends of the bars in the centre of the grips; so span is less than perhaps initially suggested by the bars' width.
 
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