Reporting mobile use while driving

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lazybloke

Considering a new username
Location
Leafy Surrey
Any solid official data to back this up? Is there even a strict enough definition of "wanton driving/cycling"?

If you think a moments' worth of distraction cannot kill or maim a cyclist, if not a pedestrian, you probably haven't cycled in London much. A London cyclist is in constant collision avoidance mode unless riding in a segregated cycle lane. Perhaps, counter-intutiively, cyclists have more than enough kinetic energy to maim or kill pedestrians:

Cyclist Charlie Alliston guilty over pedestrian's death

10-14mph doesn't really seem like wanton cycling.
Nothing in the Alliston cases changes the fact that a car has many times more energy than a bike; thus a distracted driver is typically a far greater danger than a distracted cyclist.
The equation for kinetic energy provides my "solid official data".

As for understanding "wanton cycling", the sentencing notes are a good place to start: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-remarks-hhj-wendy-joseph-qc-r-v-alliston.pdf
 
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DaveReading

Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
Location
Reading, obvs
Nothing in the Alliston cases changes the fact that a car has many times more energy than a bike; thus a distracted driver is typically a far greater danger than a distracted cyclist.
The equation for kinetic energy provides my "solid official data".

As for understanding "wanton cycling", the sentencing notes are a good place to start: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-remarks-hhj-wendy-joseph-qc-r-v-alliston.pdf
Admit it - you're just letting the facts get in the way of a good story ...
 

Etern4l

Active Member
Nothing in the Alliston cases changes the fact that a car has many times more energy than a bike; thus a distracted driver is typically a far greater danger than a distracted cyclist.
The equation for kinetic energy provides my "solid official data".

As for understanding "wanton cycling", the sentencing notes are a good place to start: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...-remarks-hhj-wendy-joseph-qc-r-v-alliston.pdf

The equation is just a loosely related model. If you don't understand the difference, further discussion is futile. Just to be clear, your theory sounds plausible, but without supporting data it's just that.

OK guys - keep spamming the police with reports of people sitting in their stationary cars on the phone. Super easy way for the police to pad their conviction stats in an attempt to demonstrate their usefulness. Do post these things on YouTube, people being harrassed by cyclists for marginal infractions is hilarious stuff (to be fair, only CyclingMikey has these kinds of videos that I have seen). I'm sure it goes a long way towards spreading the love of cycling and cyclists.

Definitely advocate for more restrictions on phone use in cars only. The relevant rules of thumb are "if it is possibly related to at least one death caused by a car a decade, then it deserves a ban (the equivalent logic does not apply to cycling because) ", and "doesn't matter if this could also apply to cyclists, cyclists have much lower kinetic energy". This will certainly seem super-reasonable to everybody.

I just hope all this is done after all the close passes and other cases of actual dangerous driving are meticulously reported and eliminated from the streets, while drivers would not even think of parking in cycle lanes as that would pretty much guarantee a "community report" and a ticket. One can dream.
 
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Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
As do boot huggers at 60mph because they always have perfectly timed reactions and instant brakes - ! :rofl:

It’s alright they are using the Virtual Reality app on their phone to drive that close, because they stupidly think it’s ok.
 

Arjimlad

Tights of Cydonia
Location
South Glos
Passed a driver waiting at lights, mobile phone in his right hand this morning. I filtered to a point a couple of cars ahead of him.

After the lights changed, he passed me - phone still in his right hand and not in proper control of his car. I think the footage is good enough to report although at the moment it is likely to be dealt with by a warning letter like this one
 

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Ming the Merciless

There is no mercy
Location
Inside my skull
Passed a driver waiting at lights, mobile phone in his right hand this morning. I filtered to a point a couple of cars ahead of him.

After the lights changed, he passed me - phone still in his right hand and not in proper control of his car. I think the footage is good enough to report although at the moment it is likely to be dealt with by a warning letter like this one

Still worth reporting. One more driver who knows they are on a warning.
 

Alex321

Veteran
Location
South Wales
Passed a driver waiting at lights, mobile phone in his right hand this morning. I filtered to a point a couple of cars ahead of him.

After the lights changed, he passed me - phone still in his right hand and not in proper control of his car. I think the footage is good enough to report although at the moment it is likely to be dealt with by a warning letter like this one
Very likely.

Though I do wonder at that letter. Why do they believe the law is "being updated to ban hands-free calls" - it isn't. The law is being updated, to ban all forms of handheld device usage, not just communications functions as at present. But hands free will still be permitted.

And I am also dubious about their claim that "you are just as likely to crash using hands-free phones as hand-held". Yes, the distraction level is the same, but with hand-held, you also have the fact that you only have one hand available to operate the vehicle, which can make a vital difference in split-second situations.
 

Arjimlad

Tights of Cydonia
Location
South Glos
Very likely.

Though I do wonder at that letter. Why do they believe the law is "being updated to ban hands-free calls" - it isn't. The law is being updated, to ban all forms of handheld device usage, not just communications functions as at present. But hands free will still be permitted.

And I am also dubious about their claim that "you are just as likely to crash using hands-free phones as hand-held". Yes, the distraction level is the same, but with hand-held, you also have the fact that you only have one hand available to operate the vehicle, which can make a vital difference in split-second situations.
Correct, the letter was supplied a little while ago now and I am sure it will have been updated.
 

stowie

Legendary Member
The equation is just a loosely related model. If you don't understand the difference, further discussion is futile. Just to be clear, your theory sounds plausible, but without supporting data it's just that.

Take it up with Gottfried Leibniz whose experimental data showed the relationship between Kinetic energy, mass and velocity. The formula has been proven since the 17thC, unless the object in question is traveling close to the speed of light when classical physics models aren't adequate. I doubt many drivers get to speeds where classical physics is no longer a good model.

OK guys - keep spamming the police with reports of people sitting in their stationary cars on the phone. Super easy way for the police to pad their conviction stats in an attempt to demonstrate their usefulness. Do post these things on YouTube, people being harrassed by cyclists for marginal infractions is hilarious stuff (to be fair, only CyclingMikey has these kinds of videos that I have seen). I'm sure it goes a long way towards spreading the love of cycling and cyclists.

Definitely advocate for more restrictions on phone use in cars only. The relevant rules of thumb are "if it is possibly related to at least one death caused by a car a decade, then it deserves a ban (the equivalent logic does not apply to cycling because) ", and "doesn't matter if this could also apply to cyclists, cyclists have much lower kinetic energy". This will certainly seem super-reasonable to everybody.

I just hope all this is done after all the close passes and other cases of actual dangerous driving are meticulously reported and eliminated from the streets, while drivers would not even think of parking in cycle lanes as that would pretty much guarantee a "community report" and a ticket. One can dream.

These are kind of related. Firstly, someone using a mobile phone when the car is stationary in traffic is losing awareness of their surroundings plus it is highly unlikely they are going to stop using the phone when they start moving again, as whatever they are doing on the phone is unlikely to be timed with traffic. I think we have all seen the scenario where the lights go green and a driver is completely stationary and utterly unaware of their surroundings having been buried in their phone. They get beeped and suddenly surge forward as they are transfer attention from phone to road. There is no way they will have the awareness of their surroundings required for operating a car especially in a heavily populated urban area. In fact, I have witnessed a pedestrian get hit by a driver doing exactly this, and they were right in front of the car! Luckily not hurt, but it shows how distracting mobile phone use actually is.

If someone is either unwilling or too stupid to stop mobile phone use whilst in charge of a vehicle, then it is highly likely they are also pretty willing to commit a wide range of other violations you mention above - which often carry a smaller penalty if caught. That is, mobile phone use whilst driving would seem to me to be a strong indicator that the driver will have very poor standards in other aspects of driving.

Bike Cammers like cycling Mikey are making an offence that is unlikely to be detected into one where hopefully drivers will realise they may get caught and this will modify behaviour.
 
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