Retarded development

[stephenb]

No. It is know the offense it causes people I work with!

Anyway, there is actually no way of knowing if the girl in question did have a learning difficulty or not. Do you honestly think that you could correctly label someone as normal of mentally disabled in the sort of timescales where you meet drivers on your bike? You should publish your method in Nature!

suggest you don't call the next chav who cuts you up an idiot unless you've taken the time to look it up in the dictionary ("a person affected with extreme mental retardation")

 

[magnatom]

For the purpose of argument, and from Catrike's comments, can we assume that she wasn't?

No we can't. We don't know, do we. Unlikely, perhaps, but it is a possibility? So if you wouldn't say it to someone who is disabled and you can't know if they are or not, would you agree that it is probably better not to say it at all?

 

[magnatom]

suggest you don't call the next chav who cuts you up an idiot unless you've taken the time to look it up in the dictionary ("a person affected with extreme mental retardation")

That's one use of the word. The other definition in the dictionary (the one I have just glanced at) is an utterly foolish or senseless person. You were a bit selective, weren't you.... you idiot!

 

[joebe]

What about the 'Special Bus'?

Should I pass it on the left?

 

[Absinthe Minded]

No we can't. We don't know, do we. Unlikely, perhaps, but it is a possibility? So if you wouldn't say it to someone who is disabled and you can't know if they are or not, would you agree that it is probably better not to say it at all?

And you can't know if somebody might take you calling them a twat as meaning 'idiot', or 'cunt', so would you agree it's better not to say it at all?

 

[stephenb]

That's one use of the word. The other definition in the dictionary (the one I have just glanced at) is an utterly foolish or senseless person. You were a bit selective, weren't you.... you idiot!

irrelevant - the question is whether a person afflicted by the condition would be offended.
*leading with chin*

the racist thing is a bit visceral - "paki" is invariably offensive (mrs stephenb is mixed race and has copped it ) but "Aussie" never is. Not sure why.

 

[magnatom]

And you can't know if somebody might take you calling them a twat as meaning 'idiot', or 'cunt', so would you agree it's better not to say it at all?

But we are talking about (remember it is I that started this discussion) the fact that the comment is insulting to people who are mentally ill. You have said that you would not call someone that is mentally ill a ret@rd and I am suggesting that you can't always know. So I am suggesting that you should not say it at all. You have avoided the question.

As for reaction. The whole point of an insult is to get a reaction or at least make a point. I can deal with reactions. However, the insult need only be aimed at the individual and not at some innocent group. Agreed?

 

[Absinthe Minded]

But we are talking about (remember it is I that started this discussion) the fact that the comment is insulting to people who are mentally ill. You have said that you would not call someone that is mentally ill a ret@rd and I am suggesting that you can't always know. So I am suggesting that you should not say it at all. You have avoided the question.

It doesn't matter who started the discussion - I interjected to agree with Catrike in that you shouldn't be offending people and then telling others not to do it, I stand by that. Also, I do know the people I call retards to be mentally sound - cause they're mates of mine, or mates of mates.

As for reaction. The whole point of an insult is to get a reaction or at least make a point. I can deal with reactions. However, the insult need only be aimed at the individual and not at some innocent group. Agreed?

Again, see above for what I'm arguing with you.

 

[Sh4rkyBloke]

It doesn't matter who started the discussion - I interjected to agree with Catrike in that you shouldn't be offending people and then telling others not to do it, I stand by that. Also, I do know the people I call retards to be mentally sound - cause they're mates of mine, or mates of mates.Again, see above for what I'm arguing with you.

<sigh> I think that's part of the point Mags is trying to get across - you *know* the people you are calling are not in the 'mental illness' category (I'm sure there's a better way of saying that) but shouting it at some random fool in a car is a different kettle of fish.

Put it this way - would you shout it across the pub to your mates if there were others there who may have learning difficulties to hear you?

I suspect not.

You may, however, shout and call them (your mate) a tw@t as people don't associate this with any particular group of people and would just think you are a bit of a cock for shouting it across the pub, but not see it as offensive to others...

I think that's right.

 

[jely]

i admit, ashamedly (although it's fun at the time) that i often call my mates retarded or usually worse ... but if only you knew my mates....

i think it's a case of people can say whatever they want - if someone gets offended once, then don't use it in front of them twice... everyone has their own degree of sensitivity or tolerance and you have to gauge that and act accordingly.

it's not like when we say "retard", that we're purposefully going out of our way to insult an innocent group...

 

[magnatom]

It doesn't matter who started the discussion - I interjected to agree with Catrike in that you shouldn't be offending people and then telling others not to do it, I stand by that. Also, I do know the people I call retards to be mentally sound - cause they're mates of mine, or mates of mates.Again, see above for what I'm arguing with you.

So you wouldn't call someone you didn't know a ret@rd then?

I'll happily answer your question, in fact I think I have answered it before. Notice on a couple of my videos, where I swear that I have an apology for the swearing. I am not proud of it and it would be better if I didn't do it. But in the heat of the moment, it comes out. Thinking about it though, it does serve a purpose, it lets the other road user know how affected you were by their bad road use. If I said, 'please don't do that old chap' they would not realise that I felt in danger because of what they did. So, to answer your question, I probably shouldn't swear, but it is effective in getting the message across.

However, there is no need for any expletive that is derogatory towards the disabled, is there?

 

[magnatom]

i admit, ashamedly (although it's fun at the time) that i often call my mates retarded or usually worse ... but if only you knew my mates....

i think it's a case of people can say whatever they want - if someone gets offended once, then don't use it in front of them twice... everyone has their own degree of sensitivity or tolerance and you have to gauge that and act accordingly.

it's not like when we say "retard", that we're purposefully going out of our way to insult an innocent group...

I have often thought in an ideal world we could all make jokes about anything, about colour, religion, disability etc. However, this could only happen if there was never any intent behind it, i.e. if no-one was racist biggoted etc. Unfortunately, that is not the world we live in, and as a result, people take offense, rightly or wrongly.

Let me bring up the race card (yes I hear the big sighs). I'm sure you wouldn't use racist terms to your friends. That is generally accepted as being wrong. Why, because it is insulting to race it was originally aimed at. It doesn't matter if there is anyone of that race in earshot or not, we still know it is wrong and don't do it. Why is it any different with regards to the disabled? By classing it differently it is almost like we are saying that disabled people have less rights etc.

Now, jely, I am in no way suggesting that you are bigoted, racist, disabilist (?), etc. It's just that for some reason at the moment, it isn't as socially unacceptable to use terms that are insulting to the mentally disabled as it is to use terms that are insulting to certain races of people (some would say race doesn't exist, but thats for another day!).

Just my 2p!

 

[Absinthe Minded]

<sigh> I think that's part of the point Mags is trying to get across - you *know* the people you are calling are not in the 'mental illness' category (I'm sure there's a better way of saying that) but shouting it at some random fool in a car is a different kettle of fish.

Put it this way - would you shout it across the pub to your mates if there were others there who may have learning difficulties to hear you?

I suspect not.

You may, however, shout and call them (your mate) a tw@t as people don't associate this with any particular group of people and would just think you are a bit of a cock for shouting it across the pub, but not see it as offensive to others...

I think that's right.

<sigh> I'm arguing that if Magnatom doesn't like Catrike insulting people, he shouldn't do it himself.

 

[magnatom]

<sigh> I'm arguing that if Magnatom doesn't like Catrike insulting people, he shouldn't do it himself.

<sigh> and I have already said that I have no problem with Catrike insulting people, I just don't like the use of terms like ret@rd.

What exactly are you arguing AM? Your going around in circles now.

 

[Absinthe Minded]

So you wouldn't call someone you didn't know a ret@rd then?

No, I'd do my best not to.

I'll happily answer your question, in fact I think I have answered it before. Notice on a couple of my videos, where I swear that I have an apology for the swearing. I am not proud of it and it would be better if I didn't do it. But in the heat of the moment, it comes out. Thinking about it though, it does serve a purpose, it lets the other road user know how affected you were by their bad road use. If I said, 'please don't do that old chap' they would not realise that I felt in danger because of what they did. So, to answer your question, I probably shouldn't swear, but it is effective in getting the message across.

Oh, so as long as it's in the heat of the moment, and you think it serves a purpose, that's OK?

However, there is no need for any expletive that is derogatory towards the disabled, is there?

There's no need for expletives that are derogatory to anyone, but shit happens.