Retirement, how much?

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mr_cellophane

Legendary Member
Location
Essex
The £4k doesn't come out of a pension pot as my wife doesn't have one. I'm not taking £4k out of mine as it would cost me £1k in tax. The money comes from cash savings. After returning the capital in three years the annual return is 26%.
She could start one. Put £4k in one and the government will add 20%. So she could be getting an income of £480 a year from that and still have £4k. Could leave it all there until she needs it and it won't count towards Inheritance Tax until she is 70 (?)
 
She could start one. Put £4k in one and the government will add 20%. So she could be getting an income of £480 a year from that and still have £4k. Could leave it all there until she needs it and it won't count towards Inheritance Tax until she is 70 (?)
Where will you get an income of 10% a year? I have some money that's earning next to nothing at the moment.
 

PaulSB

Legendary Member
She could start one. Put £4k in one and the government will add 20%. So she could be getting an income of £480 a year from that and still have £4k. Could leave it all there until she needs it and it won't count towards Inheritance Tax until she is 70 (?)
I appreciate keeping the capital intact throughout the investment is an important point to yourself but it's of less concern to us. All of this discussion centres on whether or not my wife survives for three years but I'm hoping that works out!

The increased SP is worth £1300pa meaning the capital is returned in three years. If my wife lives a further 15 years she will receive £1300 x 15 =£19500 and the capital will be available after three years to invest elsewhere.

Using your example of £4000 invested + 20% tax relief (that figure is incorrect)** = £4800 @10% = £480. Over 18 years (no capital to repay) the additional income is £480 x 18 = £8640.

Using your numbers my wife would receive £10860 less than if she purchases additional SP years. In both examples the £4000 remains available. Agreed we are gambling on her living for three years but investing in a pension fund is equally a gamble. Yes, long-term the returns can be excellent, no argument, but over 18 years it would be realistic to experience two market "corrections" which could mean taking £480 is unwise - just look at 2020.

The SP route is a rock solid income, effectively backed by the state, of £1300. You won't find this anywhere else. IHT isn't an issue as we already have simple IHT planning in place to stay below the threshold.

** on this point the government doesn't add 20%. This is a common misconception and the numbers are tiny but can cause confusion. The £4000 invested is treated as income for tax purposes even if it comes from cash savings. For tax relief (20%) purposes it is presumed one had to earn £5000 gross to receive £4000 after tax. In your example the government would add £1000, not £800 as your calculation suggests.

I know, I did last week!
 
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alicat

Legendary Member
Location
Staffs
She could start one. Put £4k in one and the government will add 20%. So she could be getting an income of £480 a year from that and still have £4k. Could leave it all there until she needs it and it won't count towards Inheritance Tax until she is 70 (?)
What's the risk profile of that LV product compared to the state pension?

I agree that it's worth taking up pension tax relief if there is spare capital but if it's an 'either/or' situation, I know what I'd do every time.
 

mikeIow

Guru
Location
Leicester
She could start one. Put £4k in one and the government will add 20%. So she could be getting an income of £480 a year from that and still have £4k. Could leave it all there until she needs it and it won't count towards Inheritance Tax until she is 70 (?)
Even if your partner has no job, you can still pay £2,880, & the HMRC then make it up to £3,600. See last section on this page.
Assuming they are not nudging the LTA, this is another "no brainer" (if you can afford £240 pcm, of course!).

We've been doing that for just over 2 years now (& wish we'd thought of it sooner!)....under £7k paid in, value now almost £11k: not to be sniffed at!
 

BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
I have been through the website and it doesn't actually state that you cannot make up for lower contributions in the past. I will ask for a statement later in the year and see if more detailed information is provided.

Does "Contracted out" actually reduce the Statutory State Pension, as opposed to the various "add ons" like Serps etc?
 

SpokeyDokey

67, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
Does "Contracted out" actually reduce the Statutory State Pension, as opposed to the various "add ons" like Serps etc?

Bit of a guess tbh...

... Contracted out reductions in your final State Pension calculation do not in overall terms make you any worse off. The reason being is that the amount of reduction is equal to the amount of reduced NI contributions into SERPS or S2P that didn't end up in the State coffers but ended up in your company pension coffers instead.

So, my hunch is is that Basic State Pension is not affected as that is accrued through years of NI contribution as per usual.

But, your overall pension forecast will show a S2P/SERPS value for payments into the schemes and it is this value that will be reduced if you had a contracted out period.

As I said this may not be accurate and I am more than happy to be corrected.
 

BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
Bit of a guess tbh...

... Contracted out reductions in your final State Pension calculation do not in overall terms make you any worse off. The reason being is that the amount of reduction is equal to the amount of reduced NI contributions into SERPS or S2P that didn't end up in the State coffers but ended up in your company pension coffers instead.

So, my hunch is is that Basic State Pension is not affected as that is accrued through years of NI contribution as per usual.

But, your overall pension forecast will show a S2P/SERPS value for payments into the schemes and it is this value that will be reduced if you had a contracted out period.


As I said this may not be accurate and I am more than happy to be corrected.

That is exactly my understanding.
 

BigSid

Guru
Location
Hungerford
As I understand it HMRC DWP will compare what you would have got under the pre-2016 system (Basic SP + any SERPS / S2P) and the post-2016 system (Flat rate - deduction for contracting out) and you get the higher of the two.
I was contracted out for 38 years and when I checked my SP I will get the full Flat Rate SP and cannot increase it. I guess the fact I'd already paid in for the required 35 years and am still paying NI (total 44 years and counting) for no more benefit offsets any deduction for the contracted out period.
 
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