Richmond Park Speed Limit

[FreewheelingUK]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section. I couldn't work out which forum was most appropriate. I figured people may well commute through Richmond Park...

I was cycling through Richmond Park today going downhill and needed to overtake a load of cars, I assumed the 20mph speed limit only applied to motor vehicles, so I overtook the lot of them. However a copper on the other side of the road signalled to me to slow down.

I'm wondering what the law actually is regarding this. I googled it afterwards and am a bit inconclusive. Apparently there were bylaws that imposed speed limits on cyclists, but they were removed in 2010? Does anyone have authorative information?

 

[slowmotion]

The signs in the park indicate that the limit applies to cyclists as well. This link suggests it too.

http://www.richmondparklondon.co.uk/cycling/roadcycling/

( and yes, it's blooming good fun overtaking cars )

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

This quote from last December is about a different Royal Park:

Speed: The average speed of cyclists coming down the Avenue has been measured at 27mph.Some – especially if seen overtaking cars - are being stopped and advised to stick to the 20mph limit as a responsible approach, but due to a loophole in the law, the 20mph limit only applies to motor vehicles; for cyclists the 1997 Park Regulations still apply which remain at 30mph at present.Only if a cyclist going under 30mph is believed to be acting dangerously (e.g. with pedestrians on the road) can they be charged with an offence.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot to put a source to that quote. It was from a member of the Greenwich Park safety panel, who was reporting back to the Greenwich Cyclists' (LCC) group.

 

[Buddfox]

You should be careful, cyclists are regularly stopped and fined for cycling at greater than 20mph in Richmond Park. The Police look out for it on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if you don't have a speedo - it's subject to seperate legislation given it's a Royal Park. So if you see a police car parked in the side of the road, slow down!

 

[WestcountryTim]

I think the bylaw on speeding applys to cyclists as well. The Police are more interested in speeding cars, but sometimes pull cyclists over (normally at weekends when it's busy).

Annoyingly the bylaws aren't on the web (anywhere I have found). Or the times where the park is shut overnight for the deer cull.

 

[ayceejay]

Be careful in Richmond Park I once got a ticket for driving a van there. The sign said "No Trade Vehicles" which I interpreted as a vehicle that you were trading from in the park in fact it meant 'commercial vehicles'. The explanation of my misinterpretation changed nothing.

 

[jefmcg]

Annoyingly the bylaws aren't on the web (anywhere I have found). Or the times where the park is shut overnight for the deer cull.

+1 to this. I tried to find out the hours of the cull last November, and rang out of office hours. I spoke to someone who only had access to the web site, and did not have the tiniest knowledge of how Richmond Park operated. When I asked her what time the park was closing to pedestrians, she told me the gates close at 4.30. When I insisted that pedestrians/cyclists usually have access all night, she repeated "it says here the gates close at dusk". I had to wait to the next day to speak to someone who had a clue, and we both moaned about the after hours service.

 

[jonny jeez]

You should be careful, cyclists are regularly stopped and fined for cycling at greater than 20mph in Richmond Park. The Police look out for it on a regular basis. Doesn't matter if you don't have a speedo - it's subject to seperate legislation given it's a Royal Park. So if you see a police car parked in the side of the road, slow down!

Seems sensible. Parks are used by pedestrians who don't expect vehicles to be driving over 20mph and who are not on the "defensive"...as such they probably dont pay enough attention for "silent vehicle" like bikes.

 

[thefollen]

Have never been too concerned about the 20mph limit, but always on the lookout for Police and slow if I spot one. Saying that, I'm no pro and only hit 30-odd on the downhill sections. Most of the time I'm around 23-25 which isn't too bad. Cycled a 19min50 lot long ago. 20mph limit isn't a problem on the steeper sections ;-)

 

[benb]

This quote from last December is about a different Royal Park:

EDIT: Oops, I forgot to put a source to that quote. It was from a member of the Greenwich Park safety panel, who was reporting back to the Greenwich Cyclists' (LCC) group.

due to a loophole in the law, the 20mph limit only applies to motor vehicles

Not really a loophole, is it? Loophole implies that cyclists have somehow wriggled out of their obligations. They might as well say it's a loophole that allows pedestrians to walk the "wrong" way down a one way street.

 

[Tim Hall]

But back to Richmond Park, the Statutory Instrument refers to "vehicles" rather than "motor vehicles", so it covers cyclists.

Links here which defines the roads and parks covered by the limit. Note that it says 30mph. But here is the amendment of 2004 which puts a 20mph limit into place in Richmond park.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Not really a loophole, is it? Loophole implies that cyclists have somehow wriggled out of their obligations. They might as well say it's a loophole that allows pedestrians to walk the "wrong" way down a one way street.

Indeed, until they redraft the law, I believe Royal Parks are only pretending that it's the law. I wonder whether it wouldn't count as harassment of cyclists in a court.

It might be illuminating to know if anybody can find an example of anybody actually prosecuted for ''speeding'' at under 30 mph in a Royal Park.

 

[mcshroom]

What's so wrong about cycling at 20mph through the park? This thread reminds me of the conversations motorists have about speeding.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

What's so wrong about cycling at 20mph through the park? This thread reminds me of the conversations motorists have about speeding.

Nothing at all, though when you're riding down the hill in Greenwich Park at 20mph, there are very few drivers who can resist the urge to overtake. My beef is with people in uniforms making up pretend laws (oh, and threatening me with prosecution for locking my bike to a railing at a time when there were no bike locking facilities in the park, oh, and for removing a ghost bike so as not to scare the tourists). Tim Hall's link to the amendment in Richmond Park is interesting though - has it been tested in court, I wonder.

 

[jonny jeez]

My beef is with people in uniforms making up pretend laws

But its not a pretend law...its a speed restriction, nothing pretend about it and its in place to protect the users of the park who are understandabley not expecting vehicles to be driving as fast in a park as they do on a road.

If my kids were playing ball in Richmond park I wouldn't be comfortable if I knew vehicles could drive past them at over 20mph. The rule is there for protection not removal of freedom.

perhaps avoid the park if you dont like the rules (I'm talking to everyone when I say this deptford, not meaning to single you out)