Riding in primary or not?

[Origamist]

Is it too awful to suggest that now and then you actually slow down a bit and give them time to pull out safely? They've got homes to go to, too.

Indeed, but have a good look behind first. If you've got vehicles close behind slow down gradually or not at all - cyclists don't have brake lights.

 

[BentMikey]

After a near rear ending in my youth when I was on a motorcycle, I tend to keep an eye on my mirrors when braking for this kind of thing, also traffic lights and pedestrian crossings for example. I also often hold up my left hand in a stop-like manner to make sure the people behind me get the idea.

It's not always possible when emergency braking, but I've averted a few incidents this way in London.

 

[jimboalee]

Indeed, but have a good look behind first. If you've got vehicles close behind slow down gradually or not at all - cyclists don't have brake lights.

Put out your right arm and wave it in an up-down motion.

Use your rear brake and sit up with your knees splayed out to act as an airbrake.

 

[jimboalee]

After thinking about this a little further.... and remembering an incident outside Sainsbury's on Saltisford, Warwick....

If you have no idea how efficiently you can stop using the rear brake only, the course of action would be to go to the nearside, as the nearside will be the bit of road that will be clear soonest.

It is safest to 'emergency exit' round behind a moving car than 'emergency exit' in front of it.

Having moved to the nearside, cars following will be less likely to rear-end you.

 

[Origamist]

Put out your right arm and wave it in an up-down motion.

Use your rear brake and sit up with your knees splayed out to act as an airbrake.

In the example cited by blockend we're talking about descending at up to 35mph or so - at these speeds I'm reluctant to take my hands off the bars when I know there's a potential threat up ahead, at lower speeds it's less of problem and I occasionally use hand gestures to warn drivers. However, as I've had these misinterpreted/misunderstood in the past, you need to be careful.

Sitting up, freewheeling, arm movements, looking behind are all good ways of getting attention, but in some situations you'll go past the point of no return and you are at the mercy of a car pulling out.

 

[HaloJ]

With regards to arm movements for slowing....

I'm with Mikey about using the flat open "HALT!" gesture rather than the suggested arm up and down movement. Arm movements have all but vanished from our roads along with driving standards and courtesy. So a waved arm could be perceived as an over exuberant gesture for turning rather than the intended slowing down.

Abs

 

[blockend]

Sitting up, freewheeling, arm movements, looking behind are all good ways of getting attention, but in some situations you'll go past the point of no return and you are at the mercy of a car pulling out.

Exactly. All a rider can do is draw attention to himself and hope for the best. If the waiting driver has queued long enough and is sufficiently anxious to get home, his judgement will be overidden by that desire and he will pull out.

So far as allowing people to enter the main flow, it only happens if a driver wants to turn left or, generally speaking, right into the side roads. The junction is close to where a 40 limit (read 50) meets a 30 sign (read 40). A cyclist unilaterally allowing cars to pull out from the side would be rear-ended within a week.
If you want to see bike handling skills with two locked up wheels and the accompanying exchange of pleasantries, this junction is the place. Most of the time T-boning is only avoided by the rider's brakes, by which time the car has snuck through the gear box and is a speck in the distance. In law a miss of 2mm is as good as a mile.

 

[blockend]

Now from what you say, you KNOW there is a small likelyhood of a motorist dodging out, so why are you not slowing to give yourself distance and time enough if the silly sod does pull out?

It's a complex mix of judgement and psychology. Because the peak rush hour time for queuing cars is between 5-10 minutes to move as many vehicles into the main flow, drivers are highly motivated to take risks.
I negotiate the crossroads as you suggest but a freewheeling cyclist is seen as a cue to pull out, which is why I initially said the stop-go style of pedalling and varying road positions to promote uncertainty about ones intentions (am I turning left, going straight on or turning right?) seems to be the best way of not being offered a point blank side door.

Watching other riders technique is interesting, especially from the side road perspective. Fast roadies tend to go flat out and hope drivers take the hint but I've seen a few leave a long line of rubber when the hint is ignored.

 

[jimboalee]

In the example cited by blockend we're talking about descending at up to 35mph or so - at these speeds I'm reluctant to take my hands off the bars when I know there's a potential threat up ahead, at lower speeds it's less of problem and I occasionally use hand gestures to warn drivers. However, as I've had these misinterpreted/misunderstood in the past, you need to be careful.

Sitting up, freewheeling, arm movements, looking behind are all good ways of getting attention, but in some situations you'll go past the point of no return and you are at the mercy of a car pulling out.

So there are multiple hazards waiting. The guy knows them.

At the bottom of a hill, there is a junction where motorists are known to pull out.

For one, I wouldn't allow myself to get to a speed down the hill where stopping is not possible with only one brake ( the rear ).

Second, the OP has implied he makes his decisions based upon 'fast roadies tend to go flat out'. A 'hope for the best' situation. NOT good.


On the Walsall Road between The Scott Arms and Walsall in N Brum, there is a downhill where cyclists could get the 40 mph limit.
At the base of this hill, there was a side road ( now a set of lights ).
Unwary cyclists were often caught out by inattentative motorists emerging from the sideroad.
During the evening rush hour, I would be in the second lane with the cars freewheeling at 40 .
Now the lamps are in operation, I know I will have difficulty stopping if they change to red, so I forsake the thrill-ride and roll down the hill in the nearside expecting to have to stop.
Mostly not but they could....

 

[blockend]

Second, the OP has implied he makes his decisions based upon 'fast roadies tend to go flat out'. A 'hope for the best' situation. NOT good.
....

Can you point out where have I given that impression? It's precisely the opposite to what I've been saying, which is cyclists survive such junctions by promoting as much uncertainty about their actions as possible.

I take crossroads and junctions slower than most riders, always with hands covering the brakes and with eye contact where possible. Going fast leads to white helmet stunt passes, going slow likewise, so smart riders disengage from motorists expectations and act unpredictably. A little studied madness goes a long way when drivers play the percentage game.

 

[jimboalee]

Can you point out where have I given that impression? It's precisely the opposite to what I've been saying, which is cyclists survive such junctions by promoting as much uncertainty about their actions as possible.

I take crossroads and junctions slower than most riders, always with hands covering the brakes and with eye contact where possible. Going fast leads to white helmet stunt passes, going slow likewise, so smart riders disengage from motorists expectations and act unpredictably. A little studied madness goes a long way when drivers play the percentage game.

Appologies.

I misunderstood. What I read is you ride down the hill making as much of a spectacle of yourself as possible to be noticed by all the motorists around you and the motorist at the junction.

This sounded like a 'hope for the best' situation.

 

[Origamist]

For one, I wouldn't allow myself to get to a speed down the hill where stopping is not possible with only one brake ( the rear )....

Interesting - what speed would you recommend descending at? Where would you position yourself?

Second, the OP has implied he makes his decisions based upon 'fast roadies tend to go flat out'. A 'hope for the best' situation. NOT good.

...

I don't think he has implied any such thng.

 

[jimboalee]

Interesting - what speed would you recommend descending at? Where would you position yourself?




I don't think he has implied any such thng.

I've appologised. I misunderstood.

 

[jimboalee]

Interesting - what speed would you recommend descending at? Where would you position yourself?

This is not a numbers game, its a KNOW YOUR BIKE'S PERFORMANCE game.

C'mon then origamist, what's the answer?

 

[Origamist]

This is not a numbers game, its a KNOW YOUR BIKE'S PERFORMANCE game.

C'mon then origamist, what's the answer?

Jim, I don't know the stopping distance with just my rear brake (in wet or dry etc) - that's why I'm asking for your opinion.