Riding two abreast - ok or not?

[Wigsie]

Wigsie....you just crucified yourself......

WTF are you doing driving round a bend at 70 when you do not know what's round the corner...... yeh modern cars do that...BUT....

No 1 killer of car drivers and passengers in the UK, (not cyclists) is........

country roads... drive within your safe limits..... you obviously were not... what if the cyclists were a tractor, but stationery....you are toast........ THINK ABOUT IT....

Doesn't matter what car you are driving, but going round a bend, without full sight (which is what all country roads are like) is stupidity..... TBH I've done the drive at the speed limit stuff as a kid, but you soon realise you can't stop within the vision you have...

Don't have a pop at the cyclists.....

Oi stroppy ant... read the post before crucifying me please (crucifiction looks mighty painfull)!! I said I dont drive like that, I didnt need to take evasive action or act dangerously because I was and do drive sensibly.. their cycling style just got me thinking about what if someone was!

I said riding in a style that relys on the hope of cars driving sensibly is foolish and nonsense!

Please read through and understand posts before you try and nail me to a cross.

 

[Wigsie]

I don't really see how is is dangerous? At times it can just be a bit inconsiderate.

I guess danger is all about perception, I would always move to the side when approaching corners on busy/fast winding stretches just incase a car came roaring round the corner and hit me or crashed and injured someone else trying to avoid me (I guess its a sign of getting old, I would never have thought like that 10 years ago).

 

[dellzeqq]

riding in a bunch is a real art, and those of you who've done it with the CTC have probably seen that art at its finest.

Singling out is not always the safest thing to do - because you invite a car to overtake, and then the fool gets halfway along the bunch and has to make a dive for the kerb because a car is coming the other way...

When I'm tailending a CTC ride I take a very positive line. I'm out in the primary position, and sometimes a bit more than that, if I can't see sufficiently far ahead to be sure that the car can get by. You can build up a bit of a tail, but that's a good deal safer than having them get caught halfway along.

Of course, if the group is twenty or more it'll probably pay to seperate - but, then again, it may not, because if one car goes for the gap between the groups, the chances are that two more will follow, and the gap will be insufficient. Cue sideswiping.

The bend thing is a little trickier. You have to keep your ears about you. If you're approaching a bend, and you hear a car coming, then move out to the right so that the driver can see you, but move to the left once you're round the bend. There's an assumption in all of this, of course, that is belied by the driving described OP, who writes about the kind of idiot that thinks it's reasonable to approach a bend at high speed, not knowing what's round the corner. I sometimes think it would be advisable to carry flares...

 

[buggi]

i had the same argument with a car driver when out with a friend. She soon shut up when i pointed out to her that if she can't see around a corner then she should be driving at a lower speed.

 

[thomas]

I guess danger is all about perception, I would always move to the side when approaching corners on busy/fast winding stretches just incase a car came roaring round the corner and hit me or crashed and injured someone else trying to avoid me (I guess its a sign of getting old, I would never have thought like that 10 years ago).

You should always be able to stop in the distance you see to be clear....If you drive with the possibility of mowing down cyclists I think it's time that you take some more lessons.

 

[sheddy]

It would help everyone if all road users took a pride in their driving and made sure they were up to date with the Highway Code. Total outlay - £2.50

 

[yello]

My point (and what got me thinking about it) is if your on a bike riding like that just hoping that cars will drive sensibly and not round a bend behind you at 70mph is IMHO nonsense and a bit foolish

It's foolish to think cars might drive safely, perhaps even obey the law?!

I know what you're saying Wigsie and if you have a think about the implications of it, you're actually accepting/allowing dangerous driving. And if you start down that line then where do you stop? You might as well not ride your bike in case someone mows you down!

But, I share your feelings on this. I can't help but feeling that riding 2 abreast is, on some occasions, putting yourself in an unnecessarily dangerous position - despite its legality. I wish I could rely on my fellow road users having respect and patience for me when I'm cycling.

 

[dellzeqq]

Yello - what's the position in France?

 

[yello]

I actually don't know! I'll ask my club mates tomorrow.

In practice, as a group we frequently take up the entire road (!) on local roads and file out to 1 or 2 abreast (depending on road width) to allow traffic past. But then we don't face anything like the aggression or impatience that you do in the UK. Oncoming vehicles will sometimes slow, pull over and stop to allow us to pass!

You do see 2 abreast riding on main roads (race club chain gangs for instance) and there seems to be no problem with it. There might be no difference in law but there's a huge difference in attitude!

 

[Wigsie]

It's foolish to think cars might drive safely, perhaps even obey the law?!

I know what you're saying Wigsie and if you have a think about the implications of it, you're actually accepting/allowing dangerous driving. And if you start down that line then where do you stop? You might as well not ride your bike in case someone mows you down!

But, I share your feelings on this. I can't help but feeling that riding 2 abreast is, on some occasions, putting yourself in an unnecessarily dangerous position - despite its legality. I wish I could rely on my fellow road users having respect and patience for me when I'm cycling.

Your right, to be honest when I am on the bike I dont think "sh*t what if a car comes round the bend at 70mph". Statistically and perceptually I do many more dangerous things than ride my bike but its my opinion a small/realistic amount of acceptance for the fact there are idiots on the road a good thing for leisure riders/commuters?

I will admit I am not an seasoned club rider (decided not to join local club after meeting the guy in charge) so dont ride in big groups but it is interesting to get an insight into how the riding style changes when you are in those situations.

It's also interesting to see who decides to personally attack a poster and make a series of presumptions and deduce they drive like an idiot with no knowledge of the highway code rather than have a sensible discussion when someone with less knowledge on the subject asks a question.

 

[grhm]

I guess danger is all about perception, I would always move to the side when approaching corners on busy/fast winding stretches just incase a car came roaring round the corner and hit me or crashed and injured someone else trying to avoid me (I guess its a sign of getting old, I would never have thought like that 10 years ago).

I actually do the opposite. I regularly ride on a winding bit of road, and when approaching a corner I look behind (to see what, if anything, is approaching) and then move out to the middle of the lane, sometimes further to where the outside wheel track on a car would be.

I figure that on left hand bends the futher out from the edge (there's usually no kerb) I am, then the sooner a car will be able to see me. On right hand bends, moving right may mean that I am obscured behind the apex on the corner for longer, but it puts me where the driver is looking - round the bend, looking towards the middle of the road or the other for oncoming traffic.

Admittly, this is all when I'm riding alone. But I'd expect to do the same sort of tactics with others - riding two abreast means you can be seen from further round the bend in both directions. As long the cyclists are paying attension, there should be a similar amount of time to react and move out of the way of a motorist as there would be if I was on my own. There is less options as to where to move to, you can't just swerve left, you have to decide to serve left in-front or behind the other cyclist.

On the one occassion I've ridden with others, we did ride two abreast round corners and I didn't feel I was compromising my safety, nor did we unnecessarily hold-up any drivers - if anything riding two-abreast may have stop one or two trying to squeeze past when there wasn't room. Once on a clear bit of road, we either singled out or waved them past - usually with a smile and/or thumbs up.

 

[Wigsie]

I figure that on left hand bends the futher out from the edge (there's usually no kerb) I am, then the sooner a car will be able to see me. On right hand bends, moving right may mean that I am obscured behind the apex on the corner for longer, but it puts me where the driver is looking - round the bend, looking towards the middle of the road or the other for oncoming traffic.

Admittly, this is all when I'm riding alone. But I'd expect to do the same sort of tactics with others - riding two abreast means you can be seen from further round the bend in both directions. As long the cyclists are paying attension, there should be a similar amount of time to react and move out of the way of a motorist as there would be if I was on my own. There is less options as to where to move to, you can't just swerve left, you have to decide to serve left in-front or behind the other cyclist.

On the one occassion I've ridden with others, we did ride two abreast round corners and I didn't feel I was compromising my safety, nor did we unnecessarily hold-up any drivers - if anything riding two-abreast may have stop one or two trying to squeeze past when there wasn't room. Once on a clear bit of road, we either singled out or waved them past - usually with a smile and/or thumbs up.

Thanks for this, makes sense, I had not thought of it that way necessarily. Cheers.

 

[semislickstick]

Is this not illegal and a little dangerous? I know it is when horse riding on the road and IMHO the cyclists were asking for trouble and being a little risky.

Highway code says its not illegal for horse riders two abreast. They advise against it on busy roads or bends. 2007.

It would help everyone if all road users took a pride in their driving and made sure they were up to date with the Highway Code. Total outlay - £2.50

Yeah, £2.50 and usually a copy in WHSmith or free to browse online.
Forced multi choice quizzes for everyone renewing road tax!! :-D I don't know how you'd get other road users to do it but we should all prove we understand the rules and the road. Not just when we took our test.... rules change.

 

[mangaman]

I was driving my parents (both with about 40 years driving experience) the other day.

We came upon 2 riders in single file on a country lane. The idiot driver in front of me overtook them on a blind bend and gave them virtually no room.

The riders then went 2 abreast. I said to my parents what a stupid overtake and they agreed.
They then said that the cyclists shouldn't ride 2 abreast as it was illegal.

I explained that they were wrong and they were genuinely surprised.

In the situation I just described I'm sure they did the right thing to go 2 abreast as a defensive ploy to stop me overtaking as the road was still very narrow.

Also if I come across a club run I'd much rather overtake eg 5 pairs riding 2 abreast than 10 cyclists in a row.

Luckily my parents saw my logic

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I remember the old public information film about riding two abreast - the message was don't do it. Think it ended with a pile of bent bikes and a sorry looking wheel rotating on it's side - you have been warned!!

Having said that I do but we'd generally tuck in to single if we heard fast moving vehicles approaching.