Riding without lights...

[pjm]

Can't argue with cyclists needing to ride with lights at night, but what if it was a dog, or a pedestrian, or a fallen tree on that quiet country road?

If you hit a tree, the only person hurt is yourself, you have nothing worse to deal with than feeling like an idiot. If I'm walking along a dark country road at night, I listen for cars and move out the way when they come, its not that much of an inconvenience. I appreciate that sticking up for drivers rights on a cycling forum is not a fashionable thing to do, but in this case, I feel like its a bit of a ridiculous scenario that every driver has to go at 10mph when its dark just in case a cyclist fancies riding with no lights or a pedestrian wants to wander aimlessly all over the road.

 

[Cab]

If you hit a tree, the only person hurt is yourself, you have nothing worse to deal with than feeling like an idiot.

Theres a farmer I know would take issue with that. Complained recently that you get a car in your hedge, tow truck comes and takes it out, the first you know about it is when you find the damage and have to make repairs. Its the farmer/person who owns the tree is left out of pocket.

Yeah, I know, thats not what this discussion is about, but still, seemed worth mentioning it in passing...

If I'm walking along a dark country road at night, I listen for cars and move out the way when they come, its not that much of an inconvenience. I appreciate that sticking up for drivers rights on a cycling forum is not a fashionable thing to do, but in this case, I feel like its a bit of a ridiculous scenario that every driver has to go at 10mph when its dark just in case a cyclist fancies riding with no lights or a pedestrian wants to wander aimlessly all over the road.

I'm wondering where you got the impression that anyone is in favour of cyclists riding without lights? I mean, my own post acknowledged that in many situations (like, in the dark where there isn't good lighting) you're probably safer with good lights than without, although I also pointed out that good reflectors are probably of greater assistance than bad lights. My initial post was more about the amount of complaining I come across about cyclists who don't have lights on in situations where they're not really at greater risk; that isn't the kind of scenario you've described.

 

[bonj2]

The reason drivers get annoyed with any cyclist not using lights is because they don't know that that same cyclist isn't going to put them in the same position on the quiet country road, its a point of principle.

But the cyclist might know that...

 

[pjm]

OK sorry I've rather over-reacted here. I ackowledge that on a well-lit city road a cyclist with no lights should be easy to spot. I also ackowledge BentMikey's point that if you are driving well you ought to be able to spot them on an unlit road. But I think people are genuinely nervous that if cyclists are unlit, then one momentary lapse of concentration or mistake could be lethal, and having cyclists well-lit makes it less likely that those mistakes will happen.

 

[pjm]

But the cyclist might know that...

Right sure, but it would be unconventional to stop to ask the cyclist whether or not he rides on unlit roads with no lights on before calling them an idiot or not. The problem is that if you see someone doing something slightly stupid in one situation then you'll generally tend to assume that other acts of greater stupidity are also likely.

 

[Cab]

OK sorry I've rather over-reacted here. I ackowledge that on a well-lit city road a cyclist with no lights should be easy to spot. I also ackowledge BentMikey's point that if you are driving well you ought to be able to spot them on an unlit road. But I think people are genuinely nervous that if cyclists are unlit, then one momentary lapse of concentration or mistake could be lethal, and having cyclists well-lit makes it less likely that those mistakes will happen.

I can't disagree with any of that. And I agree, having good lights is important.

I do encounter cyclists who are unlit on dark roads and yeah, they're doing something needlessly dangerous. I encounter a lot on well lit city streets too, and just sometimes I get fed up with people complaining about how many bikes they see without lights even though they're perfectly capable of seeing them

I guess it comes down to proportionality, the amount of complaining sometimes seems way out of proportion to the risks being run by those cyclists.

 

[Cab]

Right sure, but it would be unconventional to stop to ask the cyclist whether or not he rides on unlit roads with no lights on before calling them an idiot or not. The problem is that if you see someone doing something slightly stupid in one situation then you'll generally tend to assume that other acts of greater stupidity are also likely.

I rekon you should try not to make assumptions like that. Won't do you any good.

 

[pjm]

I'd agree it dangerous to assume that someone driving/cycling safely will continue to do so, but surely assuming that a bad driver/cyclist will continue to be bad can't do any harm? (from the point of view of keeping safe on the roads)

 

[LordoftheTeapot]

I always use lights...
... If I get knocked down by a driver I do not want him/her to have the 'excuse' of the cyclist not having any lights.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

I always use lights...
... If I get knocked down by a driver I do not want him/her to have the 'excuse' of the cyclist not having any lights.

Snap, I even go as far as if cars have their lights on in dull daylight, then I'll put mine on.

As an addendum, what are peoples experiences of cycling in fog / heavy mist ?

 

[Cab]

I'd agree it dangerous to assume that someone driving/cycling safely will continue to do so, but surely assuming that a bad driver/cyclist will continue to be bad can't do any harm? (from the point of view of keeping safe on the roads)

I can't see any point in making that assumption in this case. You're on a city street, say, and he's on a bike with no lights. You're driving... You're most likely never going to see him again, whats the point in making any assumption about him at all?

 

[Cab]

As an addendum, what are peoples experiences of cycling in fog / heavy mist ?

Slow down and put lights on, and make sure I'm wearing something reflective (or at least very light).

 

[Terminator]

Can't argue with cyclists needing to ride with lights at night, but what if it was a dog, or a pedestrian, or a fallen tree on that quiet country road?

The highway code does state that you should drive at a speed where you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear. That means unlit cyclists or unlit anything else shouldn't be a problem to a safe and competent driver.

...and back in the real world.Do half these motorists out there know anything about the highway code.How many are not concentrating?

Mobile phones map reading newspapers eating smoking.

If you want to get more idea of what idiocy motorists get up to then watch Police,Camera,Action.

I thought lights on bikes were a legal requirement once.

No that's stupid not nowadays.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

A Semi "quote" from Alastair Stewart on Police ! Camera ! Action !
(made up) "This un-skilled driver (!?) has no chance of escaping from these highly trained, highly skilled Police pursuit teams, he overtakes on a bend forcing the pursuit car to mount the pavement (!). The offender than takes a sharp right bend and smashes into a wall, Doug and Pete (asking each other what whales ever did for the country )are immediately on the scene and arrest the perpetrator".

So how come the number of people being injured / killed by these "highly trained" Police pursuit officers are on the increase ?

 

[BentMikey]

The answer is that the pursuit drivers aren't forcing the criminals to drive away.