Heltor Chasca
Out-riding the Black Dog
Your sherry is bamboozling me. Chin chin.
Rim or disk brakes on same bike, why the extra price?
- Thread starter Lucabike
- Start date
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Your sherry is bamboozling me. Chin chin.
Stompier
Senior Member
It's surely only a matter of time.
davidphilips
Veteran
- Location
- Onabike
Lol, As long as no one gets cut up about it?
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
No but they might look at a rim braked bike and say it's fugly.
Mike Ayling
Veteran
- Location
- Melbourne Downunda
I have added a question mark to your post.
Motor vehicle manufacturers don't mind how heavy they have to make their disc brakes as long as they do the job.
Bicycle manufacturers try to make their discs as light as possible (but are still heavier than rim brakes) which can result in overheating problems and lack of braking at times.
Motor manufacturers certainly care about weight.
Mike Ayling
Veteran
- Location
- Melbourne Downunda
And now a word or 99 from Andy Blance, the bike design guru at Thorn touring bikes:
V” BRAKES Vs DISC BRAKES
For every day use and for touring, we prefer the simplicity, ruggedness and ease of maintenance of V brakes. We even prefer the “feel” of top quality V brakes. We have rims available, with a tungsten carbide braking surface, which provides fantastic braking combined with exceptional longevity. People say that it’s about time that bikes caught up with cars and motorcycles , which all now use disc brakes. There’s no doubting the improvements to braking performance that disc brakes have made to all forms of motorised transport. However these vehicles have moved from drum brakes to disc brakes. Bicycles have been using disc brakes for more than 100 years. Bike rims are disc rotors -but instead of having large 550+mm aluminium discs, bikes are now being offered with 160mm stainless steel discs. There’s no doubt that hydraulic disc brakes are preferable to V brakes in the deep, muddy conditions often found in UK mountainbiking. They are, however, more easily damaged (especially in transit) and a bent rotor is much more difficult to straighten than an “out of true” wheel. Indeed, if the rotor is warped enough, the wheel won’t even turn! Don’t compare the 8 to 10mm thick, cast rotors, found on modern cars and motorcycles, with the 2mm thick, stainless steel plate, rotors found on bicycles. Our bikes use raked fork blades, these are exceptionally comfortable, they will withstand the forces of cycling (and have done so for generations) but raked forks will not withstand the forces generated by a disc brake, which are very different to the forces generated by V brakes, even at the same rate of retardation. In recent tests on a 1Km long 25% gradient, I determined to my satisfaction that a well set up V brake will stop a loaded tandem from speed more positively than a 203mm disc brake. This is not the whole story though -clearly there is rim wear Vs rotor wear to consider. We’ve been advocating using 3 brakes on a tandem for 30 years and we’ve been selling tandems with 2 V brakes and a supplementary rear disc for over a decade. I have bowed to pressure and introduced the option of a tandem disc fork. This is very heavy duty and 135mm wide, so that there’s no dish in the front wheel, it will stand up to the forces involved but it’s significantly less comfortable than our twin-plate crown V brake fork .So you can have a Thorn tandem with 2 disc brakes but I recommend that you don’t have it! It may seem odd to take the trouble to make the best possible disc fork and then try to persuade customers not to buy it -but that’s us! I made the disc fork for 2 reasons, firstly, I’m sure that some people thought that the advice was given because we couldn’t supply a disc fork -well we can and the advice is still the same!The second reason is that some customers have said that they’d like a 650B tandem and others want to run 700c. Well they could now if they wish but only by having 2 disc brakes. Perhaps it may make sense to some customers to have one of our sturdy frames and bomb-proof Rohloff hub built as a sporty, high performance 700c machine?If you must have 650B wheels, nobody makes a suitably strong 650B rim brake rim, so you must have 2 disc brakes.
V” BRAKES Vs DISC BRAKES
For every day use and for touring, we prefer the simplicity, ruggedness and ease of maintenance of V brakes. We even prefer the “feel” of top quality V brakes. We have rims available, with a tungsten carbide braking surface, which provides fantastic braking combined with exceptional longevity. People say that it’s about time that bikes caught up with cars and motorcycles , which all now use disc brakes. There’s no doubting the improvements to braking performance that disc brakes have made to all forms of motorised transport. However these vehicles have moved from drum brakes to disc brakes. Bicycles have been using disc brakes for more than 100 years. Bike rims are disc rotors -but instead of having large 550+mm aluminium discs, bikes are now being offered with 160mm stainless steel discs. There’s no doubt that hydraulic disc brakes are preferable to V brakes in the deep, muddy conditions often found in UK mountainbiking. They are, however, more easily damaged (especially in transit) and a bent rotor is much more difficult to straighten than an “out of true” wheel. Indeed, if the rotor is warped enough, the wheel won’t even turn! Don’t compare the 8 to 10mm thick, cast rotors, found on modern cars and motorcycles, with the 2mm thick, stainless steel plate, rotors found on bicycles. Our bikes use raked fork blades, these are exceptionally comfortable, they will withstand the forces of cycling (and have done so for generations) but raked forks will not withstand the forces generated by a disc brake, which are very different to the forces generated by V brakes, even at the same rate of retardation. In recent tests on a 1Km long 25% gradient, I determined to my satisfaction that a well set up V brake will stop a loaded tandem from speed more positively than a 203mm disc brake. This is not the whole story though -clearly there is rim wear Vs rotor wear to consider. We’ve been advocating using 3 brakes on a tandem for 30 years and we’ve been selling tandems with 2 V brakes and a supplementary rear disc for over a decade. I have bowed to pressure and introduced the option of a tandem disc fork. This is very heavy duty and 135mm wide, so that there’s no dish in the front wheel, it will stand up to the forces involved but it’s significantly less comfortable than our twin-plate crown V brake fork .So you can have a Thorn tandem with 2 disc brakes but I recommend that you don’t have it! It may seem odd to take the trouble to make the best possible disc fork and then try to persuade customers not to buy it -but that’s us! I made the disc fork for 2 reasons, firstly, I’m sure that some people thought that the advice was given because we couldn’t supply a disc fork -well we can and the advice is still the same!The second reason is that some customers have said that they’d like a 650B tandem and others want to run 700c. Well they could now if they wish but only by having 2 disc brakes. Perhaps it may make sense to some customers to have one of our sturdy frames and bomb-proof Rohloff hub built as a sporty, high performance 700c machine?If you must have 650B wheels, nobody makes a suitably strong 650B rim brake rim, so you must have 2 disc brakes.
rualexander
Legendary Member
That photo is from his original round the world record trip of 195 days which was unsupported.
His 79 days supported record was on a much lighter bike with disc brakes:
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Freiburg im Breisgau
Ah, that makes sense. I wondered why that bike kept coming up in the search results.
Will Spin
Über Member
Theoretically a frame built for rim brakes should cost less than a frame built for disc brakes on a like for like basis. This is because the front forks and the rear seat stay/chain stay need to be more robust to withstand the torque from the disc brake caliper. Having said that I suspect most manufacturers offering both options probably standardise the frame so there's no discernible difference, unless of course you have a custom made frame.
vickster
Legendary Member
I like brakes on my bikes, not breaks
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
Surely the issue here with rim brakes is the rider's ability. I feel disc brakes are superior to rims, especially in winter, but with either system there should never be a need for a "death grip" under normal circumstances. I agree a "death grip" can occur for anyone but this, in my view, would only be in a dire emergency. Outside of such a situation I would expect to control my speed under any circumstances. If my rim braked winter bike won't stop I'm riding too fast.
I don't agree stopping with a rim brake is easier in the wet. At best, if riding at appropriate speeds, the two systems are equal. As a roadie I'm not sure why you feel roadies don't have the necessary skill to use disc brakes in a controlled manner in the wet. I'd argue the main reasons for crashing are excessive speed for the conditions, ice, oil or outright stupidity.**
** Which I was guilty of last week when I assumed the guy on my right knew we would follow the road through a 90 degree right bend rather than go straight on to the small road which went off the crown of the bend!!! I turned in to him and paid the price!!
- Location
- London
Many decent rims only cost about £20 though.
I intend to set about learning how to re-rimming my wheels soon.
Wheels quite often go for other reasons rather than the breaking surface wearing out anyway - a Mavic of mine recently went from a crack round a spoke hole - maybe caused by a bad London road. It's quite an old wheel - now on its second bike - braking surface fine as I am careful to keep pads and rims clean/ish. Disc brake wheels don't last forever.
So what do disc brake fans do when a wheel goes - bin it along with possibly a very good hub?
(that wheel that went - the hub came from an earlier Mavic wheel)
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
I had a five year old Mavic fail in exactly the same way. I don't know if I'd hit anything particularly hard prior to this.
I'm told Mavics are known for this.
