Risk assessment

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classic33

Leg End Member
Jonathan M said:
Interesting points again raised by the members of CC.

Nortones2 the whole issue has arisen simply because of the brain tumour diagnosis & risk of subsequent seizures. I am on treatment (epilim chrono & a decreasing dose of pheytoin) and under hospital specialist follow up from the epilepsey point of view & from the brain tumour point of view (neurologist & neurosurgeon). I am aware of the problem as you say, but I honestly cannot say that I would experience an "aura" pre-seizure, as the seizures at diagnosis occured whilst asleep.


Classic33 You've hit the nail on the head here mate, if I'm brutal I have as much chance of the brain tumour killing me in the next 10 years as I do being killed on a bike! Seizures & epilesey go hand in hand, so if I sit and wait for a seizure to happen, it could happend, today, tommorrow, next week, next month, next year. They're likely to increase in frequency as & when the tumour continues to grow, which should be a long time off.

I've not gone along the DDA lines yet, that may need to be held in reserve for the future, I'll seek the support of my neuro consultant first

Might be worth looking at it from the employers side & their requirements:
http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/employers/driving.html
&
http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/employers/dda.html

You say that part of your medication is being reduced, is the other half being increased by any chance. Changes will be made to the medication that are applicable only to that person until a right balance has been achieved. Speaking from personal experience on this part. I'm not able to say when the next one will happen, but I'm not prepared to sit about waiting for it to happen.

With regards the DDA & R.A. under actual conditions, hold them in reserve. As I've said been there done that & when the same request was made by me, assessment done under actual conditions it was dropped. What they can do is make it as awkward as possible for you to do what you want to do, cycle, in the hope that you'll give in. What they cannot do is chose your means of transport to & from work. The only way that this can be done is if they supply the means of transport, at no cost to yourself.

For my own part, those around me are the first to know something is wrong, not me. I've also applied for a job in the post office where cycling was a requirement of the job, no objections raised.

I think that the real problem, other than the "well meaning person" is the mystery that surrounds epilepsy. To many its a great unknown.
 

karlos_the_jackal

Work in progress
Location
Haywards heath
Interesting discussion, i work in risk management but bow to the better judgement of our H&S professionals here and they advise that they haven't got a cycling for work risk assessment, based on the fact that they dont know anybody that does it and also that they would prefer people not to do it, prefer is the word. They work with creatives so we can never say no.

She was also saying that they would never do RA's for cycling to work. Legally as soon as you do an RA you are opening yourself up for things you should of been doing as stated in the RA.

It may be slightly different though with this insurance aspect, if you are cycling to work other than your normal commute.

At the end of the day they can do the risk assessment and state that there is no way to reduce the risk. If you go against those you will have a big contributory negligence mark against you which a judge would recognise and also the insurer would also be within their rights to subrogate the claim against yourself.

therefore if your insured yourself, then that does reduce your financial risk, but i would check the wording very carefully and ask about medical conditions and using bike for work.

I was just speaking to our HR guy who is bring in a cycle 2 work scheme and as part of the sign up that also includes a provision that you use the bike not only for commuting but also for work.
 

sadjack

Senior Member
Well all this H&S stuff is madness is'nt it? As usual its being used to stop you doing something instead of enabling you to do it safely.

Whats next? I eat meals at home as well as in work. Is it safe for me to do so?

I can understand if your employer is requiring you to work long hours and is worried that tiredness would be an issue, yes I agree in those circumstances they have a duty of care.

But day to day normal hours? Come on.

Your aware of your condition. You have medical advice and seeking more. If that advice supports you then whats the issue?

If I were you I would only be persuaded by my medical professionals.

Your right to fight this. Good luck. :biggrin:
 

karlos_the_jackal

Work in progress
Location
Haywards heath
sadjack said:
Well all this H&S stuff is madness is'nt it? As usual its being used to stop you doing something instead of enabling you to do it safely.



AHHHHHH RANT TO START, firstly i agree with the sentiment but not the apportionment of blame.

It is not H&S, it is a H&S individual doing their job wrong, H&S if they are doing they job properly are they to advise and facilitate what the risk is and how to minimise it. They should therefore never sign a risk assessment themselves as they are not doing the activity themselves or managing the activity. It is the decision makers behind it that think, oh its a high risk still lets not do it because if we do then somebody will sue us. It is the risk appettite of the individual making the decision to go ahead with the risk that needs to be looked at and people are becoming too risk averse.

H&S law is based on reasonable and practicable.

If you want to really have a go, have a go at the courts who pay stupid awards for people who were contributory negligent themselves and think that we have to now point out common sense like its gone out of fashion. Its the growth of the compensation culture that is to blame for supposed H&S overkill.

Rant over:smile: Back to work dealing with personal injury claims against us
 

karlos_the_jackal

Work in progress
Location
Haywards heath
It just gets me, our H&S department actually started to collect stupid H&S Stories in the press.

Thats why you'll find now, I believe, is that the world or UK conker championships is actually sponsored by one of the H&S organisations. See they have a some humour.

Don't believe everything you read in the daily mail. Unless its football results.
 
OP
OP
J

Jonathan M

New Member
Location
Merseyside
classic33 said:
You say that part of your medication is being reduced, is the other half being increased by any chance. Changes will be made to the medication that are applicable only to that person until a right balance has been achieved. Speaking from personal experience on this part. I'm not able to say when the next one will happen, but I'm not prepared to sit about waiting for it to happen.



I think that the real problem, other than the "well meaning person" is the mystery that surrounds epilepsy. To many its a great unknown.

Yes, dose of Epilim Chrono is increasing, so while the Phenytoin is tapering I'm slowly stepping up on the Chrono.

Obvious main difference between the seizures that a brain tumour owner will suffer vs epilepsey in general is that the cause of seizures for me will be focal - one area of the brain effected by the tumour, with some help from the rise in intra cranial pressure, whereas for many with epilepsey the causes will be idiopathic. I'm following your sentinements quite closely that while i don't know when another seizure may happen, I'm not going to sit around and wait for it. life is too short.

The "WMP" is a fellow nurse, so she knows a great deal more about seizure disorders that Joe Public, her issues seem to be more about her and her need to be in control of everything around her. If anything her well meaningness is almost verging upon harrassment or bullying, maybe even discrimination as I truly feel she thinks I no longer have the mental capacity to do my role.
 

wafflycat

New Member
Jonathan M said:
The "WMP" is a fellow nurse, so she knows a great deal more about seizure disorders that Joe Public, her issues seem to be more about her and her need to be in control of everything around her. If anything her well meaningness is almost verging upon harrassment or bullying, maybe even discrimination as I truly feel she thinks I no longer have the mental capacity to do my role.

Perhpas you need to consider a formal claim of workplace harrassment/bullying/discrimination against her?
 

classic33

Leg End Member
karlos_the_jackal said:
Interesting discussion, i work in risk management but bow to the better judgement of our H&S professionals here and they advise that they haven't got a cycling for work risk assessment, based on the fact that they dont know anybody that does it and also that they would prefer people not to do it, prefer is the word. They work with creatives so we can never say no.

She was also saying that they would never do RA's for cycling to work. Legally as soon as you do an RA you are opening yourself up for things you should of been doing as stated in the RA.

It may be slightly different though with this insurance aspect, if you are cycling to work other than your normal commute.

At the end of the day they can do the risk assessment and state that there is no way to reduce the risk. If you go against those you will have a big contributory negligence mark against you which a judge would recognise and also the insurer would also be within their rights to subrogate the claim against yourself.

therefore if your insured yourself, then that does reduce your financial risk, but i would check the wording very carefully and ask about medical conditions and using bike for work.

I was just speaking to our HR guy who is bring in a cycle 2 work scheme and as part of the sign up that also includes a provision that you use the bike not only for commuting but also for work.


A voice of commonsense it seems.
Closest I could find for risk assessments & cycling:
http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/sportsandleisure/cycling.html
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/safety/0207.shtml
http://cpnw.newcomweb.demon.com/Info sheets/Cycling Safety-cc01.pdf


Jonathan M
May not be much help, but there's very little out there.
The reason I raised the point about the medication was to raise awareness amongs others on here that its a standard procedure. Nothing odd/unusual about it in any way.

I've been on nearly all presently available medications at one stage or another & when adjustment were made would be the time I'd watch out for anything I felt was odd & then watching what I was doing.

But to touch on the H&S side of things mentioned on here. I've had seizures
on the bus, got classed a drunk.
On a cross-country run at school. Those travelling with me back to school having been picked up let go of me at the wrong moment & I ended up the first back to the changing rooms.
Whilst sat down at home, two cups of tea being drunk from alternate hands.
Whilst walking doing shopping. Walking from shop to shop.
Whilst boarding a ferry to Ireland at Liverpool. Followed up the walkway by a group of Japanese doctors & neuro-surgeons. For a reason they couldn't explain they decided to walk on than drive on.
Sat waiting to board the ferry at Holyhead. Two nurses, one doctor in the same area at the time.
On a road, whilst trying to get a bull back into a field. Ended up going face first into the road. Stopped the bull in its tracks though.
In a church at Midnight Mass. Face first into the floor(like a plank of wood falling over). Carried out by the local Undertaker, placed in the back of the hearse, driven to the local doctor's. From there to the nearest hospital, again in the hearse.
On the toilet, first time the door opened inwards, second one it opened outwards but I had hold of the handle.

If a risk assessment were to be carried out which of these would be found to be unsafe. Also how could you work round the last one?

Given the above I hope you can see where I'm coming from. If you've been in A&E, I presume your familiar with the question "will you be doing it again". "IT" being the activity that was being done at the time of the seizure.
 

ttcycle

Cycling Excusiast
This thread really highlights to me what great information people can bring to the table on this forum.

Jonathan M - I hope you get a good resolution with this.
 
karlos_the_jackal said:
It just gets me, our H&S department actually started to collect stupid H&S Stories in the press.

Thats why you'll find now, I believe, is that the world or UK conker championships is actually sponsored by one of the H&S organisations. See they have a some humour.

Don't believe everything you read in the daily mail. Unless its football results.

Wotju mean "one of the H&S organisations"? It wos HSE itself, scapegoated by the idiotic tendency. Most of the "scares" karlos_the_jackal alludes to have been by the sky falling/frit/Daily Mail brigade. On a more serious note, the main arbiter at the moment must surely be the opinion of the consultant with close knowledge of the health status of the OP. All the rest of the "assessors" are whistling in the dark, IMHO.
 
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