Risk assessment

[classic33]

the fecking elf & safety fairies caught up with me today

I've recently been diagnosed with a medical condition that was diagnosed after a seizure, so driving licence surrendered for 12 months. I've started using the bike more to get son to school, and for me to then get into work. My job can include some off site stuff (I'm a nurse in an NHS trust but my jobs include some community based work) and while my employers have said that I'm able to use hospital financed taxis I've also expressed willingness to use the bike on some of the work closer to the main site - anything within 5 miles can be done as easily with the bike as with 4 wheeled transport. public transport is an option, but timings & locations of where I need to be are not always suitable for public transport.

But today my occupational health dept, who I'm under on a phased return to work programme, advised me that due to concerns about the Trusts liability in me using the bike on trust business, that until a risk assessment is done i am not to use the bike on work business. B@stard. Particularly as the concerns were raised by a "worried" colleague, who passed her thoughts onto management without talking to me first


So has anyone else been in such a postion, if so do you have a copy of your risk assessment that i could see. I'm slightly concerned that the elf & safety fairy involved (who is about 17 stone BTW) will be looking at things from a point of view of "how can we stop this man cycling", rather than a constructive "how can this man use his bike safely on work business".

Assumption on my part here, so I apologise if its wrong.
Your condition diagnosed on after a seizure, epilepsy. One seizure does not automatically mean you are at a greater likelyhood of having a second. Common knowledge within medical circles, so try not to let it worry you. L.A.(elf & safety) has the same chance of having a seizure as you. Might be worth pointing out.

Used to cycle to & from work for 2 1/2 years, 250 miles a weekend, and until I was hit by a car whilst on my way home, no-one at a higher level bothered about the condition. "Site Manager", other names available, put two & two together coming up with some number other than four in a way that convinced someone higher up that it was a problem. So I'd say if you can get those lower down the ladder to back your choice of vehicle for work, it can make it harder to prove its not safe to do.

As pointed out, seizures differ. They can range from "stand & stare" to what everybody could recognise as a seizure, Grand-Mal. I've had most over the years & got by. Do not let one person tell you that what they are saying about you is correct on the basis of one seizure. On that you are at no greater danger than anyone else in the same posistion. In fact it gas been proven that those who suffer with them are actually safer. Because of the fact that if anything does happen the condition is likley to be seen as part of the cause of any incident.

If all else fails you could tell him to get on his bike & perform the risk assesment under actual conditions as oppossed to done sitting in an office. That right is there.

 

[Jonathan M]

I suppose as an anti-PC person you're not in the union?

Being anti-PC doesn't mean I am naive to my emplyment rights I am in the Royal College of Nurses

some type of seizures involve people literally 'zoning out' and staring for a couple of seconds to minutes and is different to the common 'grand mal seizure'

My seizure occured directly as a result of my brain tumour, most of which has been removed, it isn't an idiopathic epilepsey where there is no focal cause, and since the day I was diagnosed, I have not had any further seizures, but it is still early days. My neuro consultant though takes the attitude of every day without a seizure decreases the risk of another episode occuring

TBH it's rubbish..........

I ride between sites, bet no-one is interested if I get squashed.....

Interfering pansies...............

Yep, these people forget that in the past I have chosen to ride in lieu of driving, but now I've suggested it as a regular means of transport, they are getting antsy. it was a "well meaning" colleague who dropped me in it, sadly she knew exactly what she was doing

For my sins, i am a Cohse trained risk assessor. Although i havent done one for your type of situation the principles are easy to transfer.

If you want to when one is done you can e mail it to me and i will cast an eye over it.

Andy, that would be greatly appreciated

The 'well meaning' collegue sounds like a nosey interfering tosspot too.

I hope it works out for you

You don't know the half of it!!! She's halfway to a nervous breakdown IMHO!

Many thanks to you all for your advice and support. My manager is going to be in on the meeting, and from conversations we have had she is onside. My colleague probably isn't, but then she seems to be trying to prove that I've no longer got the mental capacity to do my role - despite assessments by OH dept and two consultant out patient reviews where zero concerns have been raised.

Even the OH dude is on my side, he runs the C2W scheme! My thoughts are that i need to convince L.A. elf & safety fairy that I'm not going to result in a massive lawsuit for the trust. I've got no need to do that anyway, my critical illness policy has paid out, so I've already secured a financial future for my wife & son.

I'm not going to get the RCN just yet, I'll see what initial meeting brings up. I'm going to go into the meeting "expecting" help, rather than it being punitive against me.

 

[thomas]

I don't know if this will be any use, but I was flicking through the CTC mag earlier and they mentioned this.

http://ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=5301

it's for school children, but the way you're being treated it might be relevant

Looks like you have to email for a pack...I think it contains statistics,etc,etc, things like that.

 

[addictfreak]

For my sins, i am a Cohse trained risk assessor. Although i havent done one for your type of situation the principles are easy to transfer.

If you want to when one is done you can e mail it to me and i will cast an eye over it.

Essentially though they will have to measure identified risks against two things

1. Likely seriousness if the risk occurred. Cycling pretty easy to say, crash = injury ranging from minor to death.

2. Likelyhood of risk occurring. If they want to stop you doing soething it will show up here, the will over estimate the likelyhood.

thus when the two factors are combined on a matrix and the end result will put it into a catagory deeming the activity too dangerous. If gthey do this go back to them with evidence that they have overestimated this and insist that it is revisited.

Unfortunately the risk asessment business at this level involves a huge degree of opinion from the person who is carrying out the assessment. PM me if can assist you, andy

What you say is of course right, but the first RA should indentify the control measures already in place, if the RA scores high on their matrix (usually given a number, the higher the number the greater the risk).

The person carrying out the RA should then if possible recommend additional control measures to reduce the risk to 'as low as practicable'.
Hopefully this would allow you to continue.

 

[fossyant]

TBH, a correct risk assessment will mean you are OK, what's to say any seizure won't be a problem on a bus, or walking down stairs, whilst travelling on business ? As long as the work has been assessed, then it's OK - they get worried you'll sue them.

From what I see, so long as it's properly assessed, then it's OK. We have field trips for our trainee teachers - they risk assess that some will be 'phished' on an overnighter.... after a trip to the pub..... but it has to be assessed... then they get kicked out of bed........ for the next day.

 

[Davidc]

My knowledge may be five or six years out of date, but the situation then was: If someone drives their own car as transport while at work their employer is not responsible or liable for their safety while they are in their own car.

Why then does yours think they have any responsibility for you while you are riding your own bike as transport at work? If they've offered alternative transport if you want it it's clearly you that's making the choice to use the bike.

Can you point out that by not letting you use the bike they are taking action which is damaging your health - which is of course a criminal offence!

 

[classic33]

Being anti-PC doesn't mean I am naive to my emplyment rights I am in the Royal College of Nurses

My seizure occured directly as a result of my brain tumour, most of which has been removed, it isn't an idiopathic epilepsey where there is no focal cause, and since the day I was diagnosed, I have not had any further seizures, but it is still early days. My neuro consultant though takes the attitude of every day without a seizure decreases the risk of another episode occuring

Yep, these people forget that in the past I have chosen to ride in lieu of driving, but now I've suggested it as a regular means of transport, they are getting antsy. it was a "well meaning" colleague who dropped me in it, sadly she knew exactly what she was doing


Many thanks to you all for your advice and support. My manager is going to be in on the meeting, and from conversations we have had she is onside. My colleague probably isn't, but then she seems to be trying to prove that I've no longer got the mental capacity to do my role - despite assessments by OH dept and two consultant out patient reviews where zero concerns have been raised.

Even the OH dude is on my side, he runs the C2W scheme! My thoughts are that i need to convince L.A. elf & safety fairy that I'm not going to result in a massive lawsuit for the trust. I've got no need to do that anyway, my critical illness policy has paid out, so I've already secured a financial future for my wife & son.

I'm not going to get the RCN just yet, I'll see what initial meeting brings up. I'm going to go into the meeting "expecting" help, rather than it being punitive against me.

Your case has got stronger on the basis of what you put her, in my opinion. You know the cause of the seizure & you cycled at work prior to the seizure. Without any concerns being raised or having a risk assessment done prior to you cycling at work.

The only stumbling block I can see now is if none was done between the operation & the seizure, prior to "concerns being raised". Not wanting to pry, but you can raise it at the meeting if you did. To be forwarned is to be forarmed.

Its great how "well-meaning people" at work try & land you in it whilst trying to make out its concerns for safety that made them.

Best 'o luck, and don' let the buggers grind you down.

 

[Jonathan M]

My knowledge may be five or six years out of date, but the situation then was: If someone drives their own car as transport while at work their employer is not responsible or liable for their safety while they are in their own car.

Can you point out that by not letting you use the bike they are taking action which is damaging your health - which is of course a criminal offence!

I have a feeling this still stands, as use of own vehicle on hospital business requires the individual to have business use on their own car insurance.

I'll raise this with L.A. E&S fairy and see what he says. If the Trust has no liability for drivers, then I cannot see what the issue is.

Agree that not letting me ride could be damaging to my health, I put some of my recovery down to the fact that at the point of symptoms commencing back in February I'd put a lot of training in, so while that fitness has now been lost, I belive that is meant I was able to blunder on symptomaticaly for nearly 4 months before seizing and being diagnosed.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I'd be surprised if an employer can evade liability where an employee is using their own car while at work. Our H&S people have recently latched on to driving on duty as being, by a long chalk, our greatest risk. And not necessarily those on long distance work. The biggest danger is reckoned to arise with those told to get their ar*es to the short handed branch five miles down the road in time for daily appointamnts to start.

 

[classic33]

Two links worth, I feel, following prior to the meeting.
At the risk of stating the obivious, you have cause & effect. However just because you have had one does not mean you are any more likely than the next person to have another. Nor does the one mean you are Epileptic, unless there are things you are keeping to yourself. Which I don't feel anyone on here has a right to ask for.

Just don't let the buggers get you down.

 

[XmisterIS]

Are they still, at least, allowing you to ride to and from work?!

 

[summerdays]

Can they ban you from choosing your mode of travel to work? I guess they could ban you from locking it on their premises.

 

[Vikeonabike]

As far as I am aware, Merseyside NHS trust do have Paramedics on bikes. contact your local team and speak to them about cycle risk assesments and courses. If all else fails, publicise yourself to the press then a couple of weeks later lambast your employerfor wasting NHS money by insisting you use a taxi...

 

[classic33]

The two "missing links" from earlier post.
http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/employers/health.html
&
http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/whatisepilepsy.html

 

[Soltydog]

Is anyone else allowed to cycle between sites, if so they are discriminating against you