RLJ'ers

[I like Skol]

I know you said this in the context of RLJ, but in a wider context I do NOT want to be treated the same as other road users. It is pretty clear that cyclists and pedestrians cause far less harm than the motorcar, and are also far more vulnerable too so should be treated accordingly.

Re the RLJ: I see safe and considerate RLJ by cyclists at some junctions. In particular, the example I am thinking of is a cross roads with a 4 way pedestrian phase. In four years I have seen just one idiot cyclist scare the pedestrians. Everyday there are pedestrians and cyclists all moving through the junction without fear of the motorcar or each other.

I am not condoning RLJ, I am just pointing out that it is not all like the famous YouTube vid of the cycle courier race.

Thank you. Someone else that is brave enough to stick their head above the parapet. As with all things in life, there are idiots that act selfishly and spoil it for everyone. Deal with the idiots and let the reasonable people get on with their quiet lives.

 

[BentMikey]

there are idiots that act selfishly and spoil it for everyone.

Whilst you might feel that you're the reasonable and careful person, the rest of us think this ^^^^ about you RLJers.

I'm tired of having to talk about RLJing and defend cycling every single time someone mentions cycling, and the whole room/group of people turn on me. I'm tired of drivers using your RLJing as an excuse for their bad driving. Why do I have to suffer for your bad behaviour on the roads?

 

[martint235]

I'm tired of having to talk about RLJing and defend cycling every single time someone mentions cycling, and the whole room/group of people turn on me. I'm tired of drivers using your RLJing as an excuse for their bad driving. Why do I have to suffer for your bad behaviour on the roads?

I agree with BM on this. Given that I'm currently seeking sponsorship for a cycling challenge, I have conversations about cycling with people every day and 90% of the time it turns to RLJing by cyclists. Even if you travel with care through a red light, particularly on a pedestrian crossing, other people are forced to re-assess their personal risk based on your illegal action.

 

[subaqua]

I agree with BM on this. Given that I'm currently seeking sponsorship for a cycling challenge, I have conversations about cycling with people every day and 90% of the time it turns to RLJing by cyclists. Even if you travel with care through a red light, particularly on a pedestrian crossing, other people are forced to re-assess their personal risk based on your illegal action.

+1.

i was talking in the office about doing the C2C next year for alzheimers soc and all i got wqas. I suppose you will be riding through red lights a lot then.

actions of a minority affect the majority

 

[Dan B]

As I found out in the recent Guardian thread I think you're not supposed to think for yourself; if it's illegal it's always wrong, if it's legal it's always right, now stop thinking.

Oh well, I'll switch completely from cycling to skates then. Since rollerskates are not in law vehicles, traffic lights and most other signs don't apply to their users and I can legally blow through them with impunity. And by that argument it must be always right to do so.


(Note for the well-heeled: I suspect that horse riders have the same loophole available to them. You may want to ask a lawyer)

 

[Dan B]

I assume all the "illegal therefore it must be wrong" types do not enter ASLs on red except by means of the feeder lane, then, because that's just as illegal as jumping the lights completely.

 

[Coco]

I know you said this in the context of RLJ, but in a wider context I do NOT want to be treated the same as other road users. It is pretty clear that cyclists and pedestrians cause far less harm than the motorcar, and are also far more vulnerable too so should be treated accordingly.

You're not going to get a higher standard of respect if you show a lower regard for the law.

@I like Skol,
First of all thanks for taking the time (and being brave enough) to take part in this debate. It relly is interesting to hear your rationale. An insight into the criminal mind is always worthwhile

Unfortunately your actions do not just affect the people around the red light you are jumping, they affect all of us cyclists - law abiding or otherwise.
I was at the doctor last week in full cycle gear and after a rather painful procedure, he asked about my cycling. No talk of how good regular exercise was, but straight into "Why do you cyclists go through red lights". He's never seen me cycle, he's never seen me go through a red light, but instantly that was his impression of cyclists. I for one am fed up of (and I'm sure a lot sorer) being tarred with the same brush because selfish people want to shave a few seconds off their travel time.

Although I was joking about being a criminal above (honest), it is interesting to see that you use the same techniques to rationalise your actions i.e. call it something else (filtering) so that it sounds less of a problem and more socially acceptable.

Again, thanks for taking part in this thread. Its good to get a civil discussion on the topic.

cheers

 

[I like Skol]

Can't be bothered to read that much bumf when it's so obviously unjustifiable.

OK....... so anybody elses view/opinion that differs from yours is obviously wrong and you cannot possibly consider it or read it?

Whilst you might feel that you're the reasonable and careful person, the rest of us think this ^^^^ about you RLJers.

Well, that’s ok because I don’t agree, I am not going to listen, I have my fingers in my ears la la la la..... sound familiar? Also, “the rest of us think this ^^^^”. You mean YOU think that, you cannot claim to know or represent the thoughts of ALL the other people, whether you are referring to the cyclechat community or the public at large.

I'm tired of having to talk about RLJing and defend cycling every single time someone mentions cycling, and the whole room/group of people turn on me.

That is not my experience at all. I do not hide the fact I am a cyclist under a bushel but I do not get any similar reactions from the people I meet through work or in the car clubs. Are you sure you are not mixing up the vitriol trotted out in chat rooms and forums with what happens in real rooms with ‘real’ people. If you do experience this type of attack in the real world what are you saying to incite such aggression and why do you feel you have to defend yourself against something you do not do. Surely a simple solution is to agree with any comments condemning red light jumping and add that yes, it is a problem, there is a minority of cyclists that ride recklessly with no consideration for others? End of discussion!

Although I was joking about being a criminal above (honest), it is interesting to see that you use the same techniques to rationalise your actions i.e. call it something else (filtering) so that it sounds less of a problem and more socially acceptable.

You are right, I have used language that is more acceptable to describe my actions as in my opinion (and I could be wrong) if the public are asked for their views on red light jumping they will nearly always conjure images of cars or cycles careering through junctions causing all other road users to brake or swerve to avoid a collision. That is not what I do but at various points throughout this thread I have openly admitted and accepted that I pass red lights and doing so is illegal. We all have different views on this and I can accept that without saying yours or anyone else’s view is wrong.

 

[2Loose]

Can I ask why you do it Skol? Is it only because you can?

Why is it too much bother to wait with the other traffic while the red light is in place?

You hav told us that you do rlj and that you do it (in your eyes) safely, but not actually why.

 

[BentMikey]

Yes, people in real life complain about your behaviour jumping red lights. LMAO, are you saying forum people aren't real? Are you not listening then to the vast majority who don't agree with your RLJing behaviour?

 

[BentMikey]

Can I ask why you do it Skol? Is it only because you can?

Why is it too much bother to wait with the other traffic while the red light is in place?

You hav told us that you do rlj and that you do it (in your eyes) safely, but not actually why.

There's only one reason to do it consistently, and that's for pure selfish impatience and lazyness.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I assume all the "illegal therefore it must be wrong" types do not enter ASLs on red except by means of the feeder lane, then, because that's just as illegal as jumping the lights completely.

I tried to find this regulation, but failed. It doesn't seem to be in the highway code, and I couldn't find it in the RTA or the TSRGD. Do you have a reference to it?

 

[BSRU]

I tried to find this regulation, but failed. It doesn't seem to be in the highway code, and I couldn't find it in the RTA or the TSRGD. Do you have a reference to it?

You do have to enter the ASL via the feeder lane if the light is red, assuming it has a feeder lane that is.
It is a fairly stupid rule, especially if you need the right hand lane as the filter lane tends to be on the left by the kerb but it does exist.

 

[Dan B]

I tried to find this regulation, but failed. It doesn't seem to be in the highway code, and I couldn't find it in the RTA or the TSRGD. Do you have a reference to it?

TSRGD 2002

36.—(1) The significance of the light signals prescribed by regulations 33, 34 and 35 shall be as follows—


(a) [...] the red signal shall convey the prohibition that vehicular traffic shall not proceed beyond the stop line;



[...]


43.—
(2) Where the road marking shown in diagram 1001.2 has been placed in conjunction with light signals, “stop line” in relation to those light signals means—


(a)the first stop line, in the case of a vehicle (other than a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane) which has not proceeded beyond that line; or


(b)the second stop line, in the case of a vehicle which has proceeded beyond the first stop line or of a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane.

Unless you're a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane you must stop at the first stop line. Seems pretty clear to me

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I knew my comments were going to be controversial and while I could simply have kept quiet and said nothing or joined the crowd in tutting, shaking my head and muttering comments like “only an idiot goes through a red light” I have no problem with admitting how I ride and defending my actions with reasoned argument.

Do you think, then, that it is reasonable for a car, van or lorry to proceed carefully through a red light, if it is safe to do so? They have "right turn on red" for motor vehicles in the USA, and that doesn't seem to cause any problems, so perhaps motor vehicle drivers should just ignore our stupid laws as long as it is "safe"?