RLJ'ers

[MrHappyCyclist]

TSRGD 2002

Unless you're a pedal cycle proceeding in the cycle lane you must stop at the first stop line. Seems pretty clear to me

Thanks, I didn't see that. It's a pity the HC doesn't reference TSRGD section 43 at the bottom of rule 71.

It is interesting, though, that many of the ASLs I come across don't have a feeder cycle lane, and some don't even have a dashed section in the first stop line. I guess it is illegal to use those ASLs at all then.

 

[2Loose]

There's only one reason to do it consistently, and that's for pure selfish impatience and lazyness.

Must perform a selfish manoeuver to save thirty seconds...sounds all to familiar.

 

[Dan B]

Thanks, I didn't see that. It's a pity the HC doesn't reference TSRGD section 43 at the bottom of rule 71.

It is interesting, though, that many of the ASLs I come across don't have a feeder cycle lane, and some don't even have a dashed section in the first stop line. I guess it is illegal to use those ASLs at all then.

I came to the same conclusion. It's probably not a surprise that road painters don't read primary legislation, though

Thinking aloud here, but you might be able to bunny hop into them. The laws against pavement parking are rarely enforced because the car has to be witnessed actually driving on the pavement (it might just have been lowered there by a crane, for example) so perhaps if you're airborne when you cross the line you're not legally riding across it? Just a thought

 

[I like Skol]

Can I ask why you do it Skol? Is it only because you can?

A few reasons-

1. It saves me time, maybe only a couple of minutes over a 35 minute each way commute but it's my time and it adds up over the year and that is more time I get with my family so I can set off slightly later and get home a little earlier.
2. It makes the journey physically a bit easier. Not so many standing starts to contend with so the journey flows a bit better.
3. Safety. I have no doubt that I am safer crossing a junction devoid of traffic rather than being in close proximity to tons of metal that should someone make an innocent mistake (which we all do sometimes) could easily inflict serious injuries on me.
4. Because I hate the world and everyone in it! (sorry, I made this last one up )

Yes, people in real life complain about your behaviour jumping red lights. LMAO, are you saying forum people aren't real? Are you not listening then to the vast majority who don't agree with your RLJing behaviour?

Of course forum people are real but their views and opinions are not really representative of the population at large. The environment we are having this discussion in does tend to attract vocal people with distinct views so we cannot claim to be having a debate that accurately represents the general opinion on the topic. There will be plenty of forum members that have no strong views on the subject so will remain silent and an even greater number of public who really aren't bothered by this so will hardly stand up and say in a loud clear voice "THIS REALLY DOESN'T BOTHER ME".

There's only one reason to do it consistently, and that's for pure selfish impatience and lazyness.

Name calling again. Impatience, not at all. I stop when it is safest to stop and go when it is safe to do so, not really bothered or upset if conditions dictate that I stop. Lazyness?!?!? get real. I have access to 2 perfectly good cars that I could drive to work in and I can well afford the fuel to do so despite it's current price but I choose to cycle because I enjoy it and benefit from the exercise. Anyone that knows me would definitely NOT describe me as lazy. Selfish, well I do pass the red lights for my own benefit and no-one elses but I am not sure that is really selfish?

 

[Dan B]

[/size]
In some situations, yes. For example, a cyclist proceeding in a cycle lane along the road and approaching a junction with a road on his right is unlikely to come into conflict with a driver approaching from the mouth of that right-hand road who is turning into the general-purpose traffic lane alongside him. A car driver, on the other hand, would not physically fit into the cycle lane and would cause the approaching driver to have to change his speed or direction to avoid him.

Ah, look, here's an example where it may even be legal -

http://www.cyclechat...77#entry1674077

What would you do at that junction? The letter of the law says it's OK to carry on, the perceptions of the average motorist says it's not, local custom apparently says it is. I'd say it's a grey area and depends on circumstances, but hey, let's hear some dogmatic views

 

[BentMikey]

A few reasons-

1. It saves me time, maybe only a couple of minutes over a 35 minute each way commute but it's my time and it adds up over the year and that is more time I get with my family so I can set off slightly later and get home a little earlier.
2. It makes the journey physically a bit easier. Not so many standing starts to contend with so the journey flows a bit better.

No laziness or impatience? Sounds like you've just admitted to it in the quote above, and all the benefits are clearly for yourself whilst causing disadvantage to the rest of us. That's most definitely selfish behaviour. As for representative views of the general population, that's so obviously against RLJing I'm surprised you're even trying to argue against it.

 

[BSRU]

A few reasons-

1. It saves me time, maybe only a couple of minutes over a 35 minute each way commute but it's my time and it adds up over the year and that is more time I get with my family so I can set off slightly later and get home a little earlier.
2. It makes the journey physically a bit easier. Not so many standing starts to contend with so the journey flows a bit better.
3. Safety. I have no doubt that I am safer crossing a junction devoid of traffic rather than being in close proximity to tons of metal that should someone make an innocent mistake (which we all do sometimes) could easily inflict serious injuries on me.
4. Because I hate the world and everyone in it! (sorry, I made this last one up )

Selfish, well I do pass the red lights for my own benefit and no-one elses but I am not sure that is really selfish?

1) Just four minutes a day saved, just ride faster. If metal box drivers start using that as an excuse where all doomed.
2) Stopping for a rest and then sprinting away is great fun, good exercise too.
3) Sounds more like fear or lack of self confidence in one's own abilities.
4) Who doesn't.

If you're breaking the law for your own benefit, with no regard for anyone else then it is selfish.

 

[Jezston]

1 and 2 - impatience. Not a good reason.

3 - safety? Nonsense. I've not heard of many cases of people being hit from behind waiting at lights or starting off. If you are that scared of cars behind you when you start off at the lights then I suggest you find another mode of transport.

 

[User482]

I don't RLJ and don't condone it, but can we have a bit more perspective here? Clearly, there is an appreciable difference between a truck plowing through a red light at 30mph, and a cyclist proceeding slowly with caution, having checked that the way is clear. What's legal and what's safe are not always the same thing.

Turning to the argument that we must obey all traffic laws if we expect motorists to do the same - does anyone think that's true? That if all cyclists were perfect models of law-abiding obedience then motorists would stop speeding, parking on pavements, jumping lights and the rest of it? I don't believe it for a second.

 

[Dan B]

Turning to the argument that we must obey all traffic laws if we expect motorists to do the same - does anyone think that's true? That if all cyclists were perfect models of law-abiding obedience then motorists would stop speeding, parking on pavements, jumping lights and the rest of it? I don't believe it for a second.

I think it more likely that they would continue to give us grief for riding two abreast, "blocking the road", filtering in traffic, wearing lycra, not wearing lycra, wearing helmets, not wearing helmets, riding on the pavement, not riding on the pavement, not paying road tax, looking like we're enjoying ourselves, and eating lentils. Any or all of which they will often mistakenly insist is illegal.


Face it, anti-cyclist ranting has approximately zero to do with community enforcing of legal or moral standards, and is mostly about frustration or envy.

 

[lukesdad]

No laziness or impatience? Sounds like you've just admitted to it in the quote above, and all the benefits are clearly for yourself whilst causing disadvantage to the rest of us. That's most definitely selfish behaviour. As for representative views of the general population, that's so obviously against RLJing I'm surprised you're even trying to argue against it.

..and what about the selfish behaviour you and the like promote that reflects on all of us.

From the man in the gutter

 

[BentMikey]

..and what about the selfish behaviour you and the like promote that reflects on all of us.

From the man in the gutter

Do you mean like this?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0CRUpmypYk


...and like this?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz_-xD9EJu0


...or like this?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgqfnFi78Rs


As for taking the lane when appropriate, that behaviour, unlike jumping red lights, is both best practice cycling and legal, and what is taught to adults and children in schools across the UK. It's up to you if you choose to cycle at a lower standard than that, of course.

Checkmate, I do believe. LOLOL!

 

[Dan B]

I assume all the "illegal therefore it must be wrong" types do not enter ASLs on red except by means of the feeder lane, then, because that's just as illegal as jumping the lights completely.

Oh, bad assumption

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFTk_EDKReM

 

[SquareDaff]

Let me try and put some of the orginal thread perspective on this. If I did consider RLJ'ing as a cyclist OK (which I don't) I'd have assumed it was safe to set off from the junction (see Post #1) as a) the other sides lights had changed and b) other cars had stopped, even though my own lights were on red (there's about a 3-4 second delay). I'd have put myself right in the line of fire of an RLJ'er in a much bigger vehicle who thought he didn't have to obey the rules either!

Just because I assume it's safe doesn't mean it is. Am I assuming it's safe because everyone else is going to follow the rules that I'm not?!?!?) Taking all the legal eagle bits out of the arguement the rules are there for my own protection and I will follow them as I don't want to end up as the subject of a "cyclist down" thread on this forum!

 

[lukesdad]

Do you mean like this?
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=s0CRUpmypYk

...and like this?
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dz_-xD9EJu0

...or like this?
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hgqfnFi78Rs

As for taking the lane when appropriate, that behaviour, unlike jumping red lights, is both best practice cycling and legal, and what is taught to adults and children in schools across the UK. It's up to you if you choose to cycle at a lower standard than that, of course.

Checkmate, I do believe. LOLOL!

I agree totally my standards have gone through the floor,posting in commuting whatever next ?

But reflect on this for a moment, it matters not that something maybe right, if it is perceived by the majority to be wrong.

The majority here being unfortunately motorists, and it ain t going to change soon !

Your strategy relies on people of the majority understanding the rules of the minority and playing by them. They dont!

The " They shall not pass at all costs" stance is antagonistic and promotes the reaction " I shall pass at all costs" Remember your laws of physics every action has a reaction

This of course will make the roads even more dangerous.

Id resign your king now if I were you