Road Bike Mirror

[Arch]

Exactly. When I'm commuting I want as much visual feedback as I can get - meaning I use both mirrors and lifesavers before manoeuvering on the bicycle and on the motorcycle.

I don't think motorists behave differently if you have mirrors or if you don't and I'd be amazed if anyone could produce any evidence to the contrary.

Well said. I doubt most drivers would even notice it you have a mirror...

 

[magnatom]

I agree if used properly a mirror can be useful, but a head turn is not just a chance too look, it is also a communication with those following you.

I'd be interested to know if there is a study (your challenge Origamist!) which looks at how many times a cyclist turns their head when they have or don't have mirrors.

Each time I look around I get a full (or close to full) 180 degree look at what is beside and behind me. Each glance at a mirror would provide only part of that view, so if mirrors does reduce the number of 'backward looks' then it reduces awareness to some extent.

That's my opinion, and the reason why I don't have mirrors.

(Motorcyclists have dirty great helmets on that restrict their view, even if they turn their heads, thus the need for mirrors)

 

[magnatom]

I don't think motorists behave differently if you have mirrors or if you don't and I'd be amazed if anyone could produce any evidence to the contrary.

But I do think drivers notice if you look back or not. If having a mirror, you don't look back as much (I can't prove that this is the case) then the driver will see you look behind less and so will react to you in a different way.

I know I like it when cyclists look back at me when I am behind them in the car. I know that they are aware of me. It means that a line of communication has been open.

 

[Origamist]

I agree if used properly a mirror can be useful, but a head turn is not just a chance too look, it is also a communication with those following you.

I'd be interested to know if there is a study (your challenge Origamist!) which looks at how many times a cyclist turns their head when they have or don't have mirrors.

Each time I look around I get a full (or close to full) 180 degree look at what is beside and behind me. Each glance at a mirror would provide only part of that view, so if mirrors does reduce the number of 'backward looks' then it reduces awareness to some extent.

That's my opinion, and the reason why I don't have mirrors.

(Motorcyclists have dirty great helmets on that restrict their view, even if they turn their heads, thus the need for mirrors)

There is no such survey.

What you're forgetting Magnatom, is that the mirror does not replace a look over your shoulder. It is not a substitute for the "lifesaver".

Also some people use mirrors due to reduced neck mobility.

 

[BentMikey]

Oh, I'd say there's definite advantage in negotiating with drivers by looking at them. It has a noticeable effect on their driving, making them hold back when sometimes they wouldn't do so if you hadn't looked.

This is mentioned in many places, Cyclecraft and CTUK training for two, and it's easily observable.

 

[magnatom]

Yes, but as several people have said, having mirrors doesn't stop you from doing this either does it? I'm certain that neither Cyclecraft nor the CTUK trainers promote the removal of mirrors.

I can't prove it, but I would suggest that someone with mirrors (in general) is less likely to look around as often as a cyclist without them (large variations in both groups obviously).

I have never had a problem, know what is behind me and I don't have mirrors, although I will accept that they can be useful for some people.

 

[Arch]

I can't prove it, but I would suggest that someone with mirrors (in general) is less likely to look around as often as a cyclist without them (large variations in both groups obviously).

With the exception of people who have a need for a mirror because they have neck or sight issues (my mum for example is almost blind in her right eye, so a quick backward glance doesn't help much, she would end up looking past her glasses lens for that eye and see bugger all unless she could turn her head a long way round. like 180 degrees) I don't know that people are less likely to look back because they have a mirror - I'd sort of think that people who have mirrors (since they are not a standard item fitted to bikes) have demonstrated a wish to be more aware of what's behind them - an active purchase. Yes, some will perhaps rely on them, but those people might not look behind them much anyway...

I certainly don't think they are a bad thing, but obviously, they shouldn't be relied on 100%.

 

[Smokin Joe]

After my original post I went out for a couple of hours and tried to think if there were occassions when a mirror would be useful. In fact I thought about it so much I ended up glancing down at the bar-end expecting to see rear view image and cursing when it wasn't there!

I will probably order one as they are only about £17.50 including shipping, so expect a road test in the near future.

 

[Maz]

The Pashley trike I bought recently came fitted with a mirror...I don't think I looked behind me once when I last rode it.

Not a good sign...

 

[BentMikey]

Yes, but as several people have said, having mirrors doesn't stop you from doing this either does it? I'm certain that neither Cyclecraft nor the CTUK trainers promote the removal of mirrors.

That's a good point, but the problem is that most people I see with mirrors tend not to negotiate by looking back. CTUK make the comment that mirrors are not as good as looking and looking back, and aren't very positive about mirrors.

I see both sides of the debate, as I have no mirrors on my upright bike, and I do on my recumbent. It's very hard to look back and negotiate on a fairly low and laid back recumbent, so mirrors are essential for riding in traffic.

 

[Yorkshireman]

Originally Posted by Uncle Mort
Yes, but as several people have said, having mirrors doesn't stop you from doing this either does it? I'm certain that neither Cyclecraft nor the CTUK trainers promote the removal of mirrors.

That's a good point, but the problem is that most people I see with mirrors tend not to negotiate by looking back. CTUK make the comment that mirrors are not as good as looking and looking back, and aren't very positive about mirrors.

I see both sides of the debate, as I have no mirrors on my upright bike, and I do on my recumbent. It's very hard to look back and negotiate on a fairly low and laid back recumbent, so mirrors are essential for riding in traffic.

So on the recumbent you're in a slightly worse situation (re rear view) than me on an upright, as I have a 'touch of Arthur' in my neck/shoulders and whilst it varies from mild discomfort to 'ouch' I still manage the over the shoulder look. I like the mirror as it gives me a good idea of what's happening behind all the time. If (as is sometimes argued) it's a 'bad thing' to rely heavily on mirrors, recumbents should not be allowed on the road .

 

[Origamist]

That's a good point, but the problem is that most people I see with mirrors tend not to negotiate by looking back. CTUK make the comment that mirrors are not as good as looking and looking back, and aren't very positive about mirrors.

People who buy mirrors are clearly interested in rearward visibility and cycling safely on the roads - hence, the aid. This already means they are showing more concern for traffic conditions than the majority of cyclists I see on the roads.

What CTUK are talking about is people misusing mirrors and people becoming reliant on them as the only means of looking rearward. If used correctly, mirrors complement "over your shoulder" checks.

 

[magnatom]

I do accept the point that people who decide to get a mirror are more likely to be more aware of safety.

However, I would worry if I got one, that on occasions when I look in the mirror, I would miss something that I would have spotted if I looked around.

I certainly agree that in an ideal situation where a mirror increases the amount of rear glances that a cyclists takes, without compromising head turns would improve safety, however, I'm just not sure that is how it would work practically.

This is a research study for someone...

 

[LOGAN 5]

I've got mirrors on my commute bike and road bike. Wouldn't ride without them now. Still look behind as much as I would without them but they're great to see what drivers are doing behind. Regularly catch "swooping" taxis lining up for a close overtake in the bus lane and am able to change my road position to stop them until it's safe for them to pass. Without the mirror most of them would have wedged/squeezed their way past and it would be too late to do anything about it.

Got hooted AGAIN last night by a taxi down a narrow one way street in London. Of course I knew he was there before he hooted as I'd seen him in my mirror so was prepared for what was to follow eg the tailgating and of course the hoot "get out of my way even though I'm going to stop at those red lights 30 yards away" sort of moronic road behaviour. Totally ignored him. Think that's the best way to deal with taxi drivers. If you get engaged in some dialogue with them that gives them the opportunity to have a rant about all the things they dont'/didn't/never like about cyclists etc etc etc.

 

[Origamist]

I do accept the point that people who decide to get a mirror are more likely to be more aware of safety.

However, I would worry if I got one, that on occasions when I look in the mirror, I would miss something that I would have spotted if I looked around.

I certainly agree that in an ideal situation where a mirror increases the amount of rear glances that a cyclists takes, without compromising head turns would improve safety, however, I'm just not sure that is how it would work practically.

This is a research study for someone...

Eyes are better than just mirrors, but you are overestimating the blind-zone of most properly set-up mirrors. Have you used one?

As I have already made clear, mirror use should supplement head turns - you might worry that you missed something with a mirror, but as most people use it to monitor traffic between head turns - you would be missing far more by simply relying on less frequent look backs.

Using a mirror and head turns in concert is not that difficult - even in a non-ideal world.

If anything, the temptation is to monitor rearwards too often. This can be dangerous as what is unfolding ahead of you usually presents more problems.