Road tax

[subaqua]

Perhaps this is irrefutable proof that the congestion charge was always about raising money, and nothing about improving the situation for the people having to navigate the streets there......

It was always about removing polluting vehicles from central london. hence the discount for electric vehicles, which the last time i checked still contributed to traffic congestion , same used to apply for LPG as thats a supposedly clean fuel but there were moves to stop the discount a few yrs ago.

congestion charge is far more "zippy" than pollution tax .

 

[subaqua]

Can it be any worse than it already is. How do you define congestion ?

There are some awful bottlenecks near me which have been created by putting lights in. When they break down, the traffic starts to flow again. They can create congestion out of the lightest traffic flows, and the addition of bus lanes effectively halves the capacity for stretches of the roads which in themselves creates 'congestion'

I say ditch the bus lanes and turn off the lights but for the peak hours of the day when there is a tangible benefit from them being there, and double the capacity in a stroke

some junctions on their own have a natural flow, the problem is that traffic engineering means putting several junctions in pahese with each other to keep traffic at ALL of the junctions flowing at a steady rate rather than ahve 1 or 2 free junctions and 1 or 2 clogged junctions.

lights are also needed for pedestrians to cross

 

[Linford]

It was always about removing polluting vehicles from central london. hence the discount for electric vehicles, which the last time i checked still contributed to traffic congestion , same used to apply for LPG as thats a supposedly clean fuel but there were moves to stop the discount a few yrs ago.

congestion charge is far more "zippy" than pollution tax .

Buuuutttttt, they then decide to stage the Olympics there, and invite how many thousands of lorries onto the streets to facilitate the construction ? - as well as then the event in itself. I for one will be staying on this side of Oxford. The place will be hell on wheels for sure

 

[dawesome]

We've tried reducing congestion by making it easier to drive, it doesn't work, nor does expanding capacity, traffic expands to fill the space. It's unsustainable, you end up chasing your tail all the time:

As reported in our last issue, the DfT’s new central forecast, produced by the NTM, is for road traffic volumes in the capital to grow 43% between 2010 and 2035, reversing more than a decade of declining traffic levels.​

Snip

The forecasters also need to understand that there is a parallel but equally important end state called equilibrium (i.e where traffic levels have stabilised). For example, taking into account costs, congestion, availability of alternatives, and the ability to get shopping delivered, people are increasingly deciding not to use the car for the supermarket trip.​

Somewhere along the line this is going to reduce the growth in multi-car owning households, as it has already done so in inner London. Rather than using two separate cars, households will group trips together to reduce car mileage. Car sharing can happen within households as well as at the workplace. We may well reach equilibrium (traffic stabilisation) before we reach saturation, and in many places we’re there already. However, this should not prevent the saturation level itself being seriously revisited.​

http://www.rudi.net/node/22886

Bog standard n Victorian terraced house is about twenty foot wide. Married couple and their kids live there, they all have cars. All the neighbours have cars. People claim "their" parking space outside their house with wheelie bins and recycling boxes and planks of wood. Their cars are only used for an hour a day. It's unsustainable.

 

[Linford]

some junctions on their own have a natural flow, the problem is that traffic engineering means putting several junctions in pahese with each other to keep traffic at ALL of the junctions flowing at a steady rate rather than ahve 1 or 2 free junctions and 1 or 2 clogged junctions.

lights are also needed for pedestrians to cross

I understand the concept of queueing across series of junctions, but this only becomes a requirement when the traffic density becomes very heavy. The argument for many cyclists jumping red lights and using static flows as a justification on safety grounds is already there.

What is so wrong with the natural flows regulating the desire to use the area in the first place. You don't need traffic lights when the levels rise to a point that gridlock is inevitable. This could also do away with the desire to use buses and walk, and instead get a job with in walking distance.

 

[dawesome]

. The place will be hell on wheels for sure

Jubilee went ok, because people didn't drive:

Transport for London (TfL) certainly seem pretty pleased with how it has gone so far.
The main reason being Londoners listened to the messages that they put out - i.e don't drive into central London.
That means traffic was 40% down on a normal Sunday. Passengers on public transport went up 25%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18324886

 

[Linford]

Jubilee went ok, because people didn't drive:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18324886

It was also the case because the majority were not in work over the break. We only have to see how much the traffic levels rise when the school runs are back in place when there is a statutory requirement for people to get their kids to school, or get to work, kids to college etc etc

 

[Linford]

We've tried reducing congestion by making it easier to drive, it doesn't work, nor does expanding capacity, traffic expands to fill the space. It's unsustainable, you end up chasing your tail all the time:



http://www.rudi.net/node/22886

Bog standard n Victorian terraced house is about twenty foot wide. Married couple and their kids live there, they all have cars. All the neighbours have cars. People claim "their" parking space outside their house with wheelie bins and recycling boxes and planks of wood. Their cars are only used for an hour a day. It's unsustainable.

Alternatively the could drop the kerbs, and use their front gardens as parking spaces. This would keep the roads clear as nobody would legally be entitled to park across the drop - net result = cars off the road, and you can get 3 cars across 20ft of drive at a squeeze. I'd say that the average terrace with a hallway is closer to 18ft myself which would accommodate a couple of cars with ease.

 

[subaqua]

Alternatively the could drop the kerbs, and use their front gardens as parking spaces. This would keep the roads clear as nobody would legally be entitled to park across the drop - net result = cars off the road, and you can get 3 cars across 20ft of drive at a squeeze. I'd say that the average terrace with a hallway is closer to 18ft myself which would accommodate a couple of cars with ease.

until they make a car thats 2 ft long or 2 ft wide then that isn't going to happen in most of East London with terraced houses. thats how far it is from my front window to pavement. wish i could park off road . would lower the insurance risks and therefore the costs. ( even if it is subsidised)

oh and have you tried to get permission for a drop kerb in LBWF- good luck.

 

[subaqua]

Buuuutttttt, they then decide to stage the Olympics there, and invite how many thousands of lorries onto the streets to facilitate the construction ? - as well as then the event in itself. I for one will be staying on this side of Oxford. The place will be hell on wheels for sure

not many of the lorries from the park actually went through the CC zone though. theres more lorries in the CCzone from the crossrail project. a quick check of the map will show you the zone and the location of the park.

concrete was made on site and the majority( 99% ) of the raw materials for that were delivered by train. you could see this from the train on the liverpool st side of stratford station . its where the warm up track now sits. as much as i hate the waste on the park, it did do some sensible things ( muck away by train/canal wasn't used as much as it should /could have been)
the park itself is a private vehicle free zone. yes there are LOCOG cars and service vehicles. you can't park close to the park as there is a olympic CPZ in force from mid july to mid september. its pubic (sic) transport thats going to struggle with the 2 tube stations closest already not far from capacity ( leyton and stratford)

 

[gambatte]

Why is the term 'Road tax' so important?

I guess that question was asked 80 years ago in parliament, when it was abolished... because it gave a sense of entitlement to drivers?

Time we caught up