Rory O'Brien bike

[limey]

Rory O'Brien

I can confirm the accuracy of most of the above as I had a Saturday job at the Rory shop in Manor Park from 1962-66 working for Ken Kirby who was Rory's brother-in-law. During the same period I raced Rory bikes on road and track, first as a junior and then as a 1st category amateur. I was sponsored by Rory during this period and raced under the colours of Romford RC.

Our weekday training rides started at 7pm from the Moby Dick r/about. My regular training partner was Bernie Deamer, a 1st cat amateur for Kenistons, and occasionally Alan Perkins, a pro with the Moulton team.

I stopped racing at the end of 1966 due to non-compatability with my studies but continued to "ride a Rory" until 1999 when steel frames gave way to Aluminium. Since then I have ridden Cannondale and my current road bike is a Scott CR1.

In 1978 I moved to France and have lived in the South, just outside Montpellier, for 25 years. I am now 63 but continue to ride competitively in 10-12 cyclosportives p.annum including the Ardechoise and the Bosses du 13. I ride between 800 and 1000 Kms per month.

I would very much like to have contact with anyone who was active in the same mid60s period in E. London / Essex area and with whom I may have ridden. I have a Rory frame catalogue, photos, racing licences and other mementos from this same period if anyone is interested.

 

[raindog]

What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here.

I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth. It's got a really nice Stronglight headset with a 'toothed' adjusting system. Anyroad, here's a picture of the frame. (if I can manage it, that is)
Now I've joined, I may as well make the effort to join in on the rest of the forum, but it'll take a while for me to explore it.

 

[swee'pea99]

Welcome raindog! Wow, that's a real one-off. I've never seen a bike with a split seat tube like that - looks very elegant. I wouldn't bother with transfers - leave 'em guessing! Just get some wheels on and see how it rides.

 

[raindog]

Thanks for the welcome swee'pea.
I've got the bike built up now with the original wheels, and even took it out a couple of times before I got the brake fitted () but since then the tubs have gone rotten, so I'll probably just keep it hanging on the wall looking pretty.

 

[limey]

Thanks for the picture. Except for the split seat tube it looks exactly like my Rory track frame from 1963/4. The front fork crown and the lug work are distinctive. My last visits to the Rory shop in Romford before closure around 2001/2 were to try to obtain transfers for my Rory that required a re-spray. The staff there were less than helpful and probably looking forward to the dole queue. I have no idea where you could get transfers for the frame these days.

 

[raindog]

Thanks for the info limey. Wasn't holding out much hope for the transfers to be honest, but I wouldn't mind betting there are some lounging about on a shelf somewhere.

 

[pubrunner]

What a fantastic thread. A pal sent me the link so I joined the forum just to post here.

I've been trying to get information on Rory O'Brien frames for a couple of years now. I inherited my dad's fixed wheel machine when he died and I've since restored it. Would love to have some transfers for it - any ideas anyone? - I remember when the bike was new, it was black with a gold 'signature' type script on the downtube. As far as I remember, the frame must've been built in '62 or '63. It was built to my dad's own spec, including angles and the split seat tube - a feature he'd allways wanted on a bike since he saw a similiar frame when he was track racing in his youth.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bike that your Dad liked was Saxon Twin Tube, see :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75395133@N00/1288944526/

and

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...mages?q=saxon+twin+tube+frame&hl=en&sa=N&um=1

 

[dan_bo]

Just look at that!

 

[raindog]

I wouldn't be surprised if the bike that your Dad liked was Saxon Twin Tube, see :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75395133@N00/1288944526/

and

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...mages?q=saxon+twin+tube+frame&hl=en&sa=N&um=1

Thanks for that - the name rings bells for me now, and I'm sure that's what it must have been. Fascinating stuff and great pics.

 

[The Bear]

I also used to work in Rory O'Briens - for Roy Hodges daughter Mandy and her husband Mick "Bert" Black. I knew Rory in the late 60s and early 70s - he was a rum character, and quite intimidating for young sprogs just starting out. He once told me that the only way to become a real bike rider was to "put a brick in your saddlebag" and "wear wellington boots". Looking back I expect I was just the sort of nervous little kid he loved to tease! Rory sold the business to Roy Hodges about 1977 - Roy was by then in the Elite CC, and still racing. Rory himself retired to Bicknacre. I worked in the shop for just a couple of years, 1978-1980 if I remember correctly. Dear old Ken Kirby was still there and he taught me to build wheels and swear properly.

Re frames - a word of caution. By the 1970s Rory's frames were not really considered the best - respectable yes, but not the best. In 1970s Essex, probably the two most reckoned frames were Hetchins and Condor - built by Jack Denny and Vic Edwards respectively. However the name "Rory O'Brien" still had a certain cachet about it - probably on the basis that in the 50s and 60s the frames had once been top notch. The shop always remained a mecca for bikies.

I had 3 Rory O'Brien frames. I bought the first in 1968 for £14, and I only later learnt that it was a "Fiorelli" - a gaspipe tubing job. At the time, a real Rory 531 frame cost about £30-35 which was more than I could afford. I now realise that like many bike shops, Rory stocked a range of "off the peg" frames in addition to the pukka frames customers would have custom built. That continued right into the 1980s. I also had an off the peg Rory frame which had been built by Holdsworth in South London. The third "Rory" I bought was built by Hobbs to my spec and was 531 SL - the first time Hobbs built with SL and they reported it had been very tricky.

In the period that I knew the shop, all the custom frames were built by Hobbs of Barbican. But that's where it gets more complicated, and I would very much like to learn more about this. I know that Ken Kirby had originally worked at Hobbs in the 50s, and recently I've learn that Vic Edwards also worked there. Can anybody supply more info about this? Did Les Ephgrave also work there? The few Ephgrave frames I've seen are beautiful things - but are definitely 50s-60s era.

 

[limey]

My last visits to the Rory shop in Romford were after I moved to France in 1978 and I was told by the shop that Ken Kirby had retired. Certainly if he had still been there we would have spoken. However, I do remember there were a good number of Rory frames hanging on hooks, many more than when I worked at Manor Park, and this surprised me as in my days it was more or less only to order.

All my racing wheels were built by Ken and I would not let anyone else touch them. Before important events he always checked the tension and trued them to perfection. Ken was the best with wheels.

The info on frames is amazing. As far as I know none of the frames were made on the premises by any of the makes- they simply did not have the facilities. There were a few select frame builders around who built to order. Vic Edwards rings a bell and if memory is correct he had a workshop in the Ilford, Becontree, Dagenham area. I remember going there several times and watch him braze the tubes together using jigs that could be adjusted for different sizes and angles. Les Ephgrave does not ring any bells to me but this is a long time ago and I may be wrong.

Condor had their shop in Gray's Inn Road, just around the Barbican, and ran a profesional team like Rory but somewhat better organised. The only rider I knew was Alan Jacob.

Anyway, for the 1963 season I had two new Bikes, one for road and one for track. Both were built I believe by Vic Edwards. The problem that occured was that the Road bike came back from the sprayers with Condor labels. Ken Kirby went mad but the problem was not corrected until around September when they were resprayed for the 1964 season. I have several pictures of myself racing in 1963 with Condor prominent on the downtube!

I don't have any recollection of Hobbs being involved. I do remember there were some links to E.G. Bates at Plaistow but don't remember exactly how.

Anyone else able to fill in details please do so.

 

[swee'pea99]

Excellent first post The Bear - welcome to the forum! I shall wear wellingtons henceforth. And welcome to you too Limey. Or should I say bien venu. (probably not since I don't even know how to spell it!)

 

[limey]

Just to clarify the way frames used to be built. The sequence was:
+ Bike shop takes order from client
+ Bike shop passes order to frame builder
+ Frame builder has various sets of tubes, pre cut by supplier (e.g. Reynolds) in stock in various standard sizes.
+ Frame builder has various sets of lugs in stock in various designs
+ Frame builder brazes together lugs and tubes in a jig to make the frame.
+ Frame builder cleans up the frame to remove excess brazing material
+ Frame builder sends the frame to a spray shop who sand blast the frame then undercoat and paint it, add the various stickers, then give final coat of clear varnish.
+ Frame is then sent to bikeshop
+ Customer takes delivery.

What I learnt from this is that there was not really any difference from one make to another. The tubing came mostly from Reynolds (531 was the standard for competition bikes). The differences came in the finishing and the reputation of the bike shop.

 

[raindog]

Unless you bought a frame from a "real" builder like Mercian, for example, which is where I bought my early frames. Mercian had a shop and also their own workshop where all the above work was carried out, including painting. Chrome work though would have been farmed-out obviously.

 

[The Bear]

In my experience, the chrome work was usually done at a different place than the sprayers. And you used to see some beautiful frames with chrome lugs etc - very much a thing of the past now.
Rory's had all their spraying done at Bromar's at Gallows Corner.

Limey - yes, that's good run down. But the best builders built up a reputation for handcutting their lugs, presumably they worked on these in advance - at least I assume that's how it was done. It's a bit like family history this - I knew Hetchin's builder Jack Denny very well, but how I wish I'd asked him more about his craft.

Re Hobbs - I'm beginning to think that Rory O'Briens may only have fallen back on Hobbs in later years.