Rory O'Brien bike

[limey]

I had forgotten all about the chrome work- as you say, thing of the past. Back in the 60s you had to have chrome fork ends at least. I remember riding Herne Hill track in 1963 alongside Tom Simpson who had an all chrome Carlton just for the occasion. Afterwards all the trackies wanted the same frame. I tried one but preferred my one of a kind Rory.

But yes you're right, the chrome work was done by electrolysis by a company who specialiised, obviously, in electrolysis. Basically the part to be chromed was immersed in a bath containing the appropriate solution and the current turned on for a period of time depending how thick you wanted the chrome to be. After the frame went for spraying.

The lugs. Yes, again you're right. The lugs were supplied as blanks and certain manufacturers offered optional designs. Some were quite intricate. Basically the frame builder took a blank and then cut and filed (mostly filed) out the design. Today a lost art. Didn't change the performance at all but looked good.

I also think "who did what" for Rory changed over the years as fortunes changed, retirement appeared, etc. I have no recollection at all of Hobbs.

Amazing how thinking of a subject brings back dormant memories. I remember now the probable link between Rory and E G Bates was Dave Bedwell. Originally pro for Rory, in his later years Dave rode for Bates but always remained close to Rory.

 

[The Bear]

We had a bit of a chat about Dave Bedwell on another forum recently.

http://www.thefranceforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=70329#p70329

Apparently Dave lived a few doors away from Kenistons shop near Romford Station.

 

[limey]

Interesting, the Wikipedia entry shows Dave as riding for O'Brien Bates in 1964. Not sure how that was organised, as far as I was concerned Dave was with the Rory team.

I trained regularly with a number of Kenistons riders, Bernie Deamer, Roger Canaver, and, i forget, names are on the tip of the tongue, have to think some more. Their shop was in Victoria Road, as you say near the station. Had a good chinese resto the other side of the street, know it well, my wife is from Harold Hill and we used to go there fairly often. Didn't go much on the chinese in North st near Rory's though.

 

[The Bear]

We didn't think much of the fish'n'chip shop next door to Rory's - but then that's because we saw their rats popping in and out of our yard every day!

Raindog sent me an invoice of yours from 1979 - that's Mandy's writing. Ken still worked there, but he was part time by then.

 

[limey]

Stopped riding that frame in 1999, most of the parts got changed over the years but the brakes, the stem and the bars stayed the same. Gave the bike to a friend end of last year who robbed it for parts to build an original mid 70s Anquetil. Can't believe the difference in weight between that Reynolds 531 and my current Scott carbon though.

How do you like the old Rory catalog? Long time since saw anything in pounds shillings and pence. The DB frame stands for Dave Bedwell but I suppose you figured that out.

 

[The Bear]

Wonderful stuff - right up my street. A brochure like that would look amateurish today- but it didn't matter did it? I've got an old Hetchins catalogue somewhere, but quite where is another question!
When I worked in Rorys there were still a few older bits and bobs laying around - Airlite hubs etc. Where was the workshop when you worked there?

 

[normgow]

If I remember correctly there were four frames available; "Cadet" ,"DB Special " (Dave Bedwell) , "Contessa" and another whose name is lost in the mists of time.
For a long time Bob Tregonning worked in the North Street , Romford shop. Bob was a Geordie who somehow had found his way south to Essex, I don't know his story but I'm sure somebody out there does. Bob was tragically run down and killed on the Southend Road near the Moby Dick roundabout / junction Whalebone Lane some time in the mid -sixties. For a while there were two Bob Tregonning Memorial road races organised, one in Essex by the Easterly R.C and the other in the North East by the Early Birds C.C .
After Bob's death Rory spent most of his time in the Romford shop.
Also working there as mechanics were Roger Joseph and Tony Ashton both Romford R.C members.
The independent team of Dave Bedwell, Ron Pannell, Jim Grieves and Bob Newell were kitted out in khaki coloured tracksuits and acquired the name "the paras". They rode Rory O'Brien frames equipped, as were most British independents of that time, with Williams chainsets , Cyclo Benelux gears, Airlite hubs and GB brakes bars and stems.
The chainsets were the first aluminium cotterless model Williams had produced, they had a five pin crank attaching the outer chainring with the inner bolting directly onto that ; the same principle as the Stronglight 49D crank and TA Criterium Rings.
The GB brakes were either the "Synchron" model based on the German Altenburger or the earlier "Coureur" model. The centre pull model introduced in the late fifties seemed to have fallen out of favour by then. Most of the team used the Benelux parallelogram rear gear mechanism but Dave Bedwell preferred the old style compressed spring type (Mk. VII) which he used up until the end of his career.
I don't know what tyres they used but if anyone has copies of "Sporting Cyclist" of that era the advertisements of various team sponsors often listed the equipment used.

 

[limey]

Now we are really getting into details!!

The Manor Park shop was very much like the one at Romford and about the same size. The front half was showroom, then the counter, a dividing wall with accessories hanging, and behind the workshop, which was never very tidy and full of things "that might be useful one day" but rarely were. A back door led to an outside loo.

I think I am now beginning to get a picture of the arrangements, Rory was close to Les and Ken was close to Vic. I think Ken probably chanelled work to Vic, and the specials Rory passed to Les. I have in the last 48 hours got some additional infos and can now confirm I never went to Les' workshop in Clapton. It can only have been Vic's workshop that I visited.

Les died of cancer in 1969 and did very little work in his last two years.

Last night on the internet I typed Les Ephgrave in the search box (don't know why I didn't before) and up came a lot of sites. I've not had time to examine closely but you will probably have fits looking at;
www.classicrendezvous.com and www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders
Look carefully at Condor, Paris/Rensch and Hetchins. Out of the world lugwork. All the history is there.

Now I have to answer Normgow's message.

 

[limey]

There were 4 frames as you say, the fourth was the "championship" and the most expensive.

I rode for Romford R.C. in 1964/5/6 but don't remember the two names you mention (or anyone else). The club was very loose in structure and members were not specially friendly. If I remember correctly we were sponsored by Duo-Matic, a twin tub washing m/c, and had Duomatic on our outfits. This was problem for me because I was sponsored by Rory O'Brien as well but without any Rory clothes to wear..... The compromise was that I raced with the Romford maillot (plain blue with the italian flag in the middle of the chest) and without any sponsor markings.

My road bike was a Rory Championship frame, Mafac centre pull brakes, Cinelli Giro d'Italia bars and stem, Unica Nitor saddle, Campag cotterless chainset with either 46/52 or 42/52 rings depending on the circuit. For T.T.s I used 48/52. Leotard flat pedals, Campag derailleurs with the changers on the handlebar ends. Wheels were Campag hubs, small flange for road and large flange for TTs. Mavic rims and Pirelli legerissimo tubulars. A 5 speed cassette 14,15,16,18,21 set up. Have no idea what all this weighed but it was pretty well the best you could get for the time.

 

[normgow]

Of course the "Championship" was the top model , my memory must be worse than I feared.
I had better come clean at this point and admit that until 1973 I always rode Kenistons frames, not getting my first Rory until Kenistons withdrew from the lightweight business. As you mentioned in an earlier post , by that time the magic seemed to have faded and my frame was never really that good . The bottom bracket seemed to be too far to the right but after I filed down the right hand face ,fitted a single Campag axle and knocked a depression in the right hand chainstay to prevent the inner chainring rubbing on it everything seemed to work OK. I raced on it all through the 1974 season including a spell in Normandy with the U.V.Caen and had no problems with the bike just the normal ones with legs,lungs and blue spots in front of the eyes.
It was Campag Record equipped except for Shimano Dura Ace brakes, I can't rember why I had those. Chainrings were 52/42 with 14-19 or 13-18 sprockets although if there were any big hills (unlike Essex) I had to fit something with more teeth.
I still have this bike in the loft above my garage but the tubulars are in a sorry state and don't look as though they would hold any pressure for long.

 

[TWO STAGE]

Just found this website by accident---unfortunately i had an accident in 1958 aged 20 which brought my cycling career to an end. Still feel very envious when i see club cyclists passing by.
As a result of my crunch--i went into swimming, walking and aviation. Have had my pilots licence for some 35 years and own a share in a PA28-180.
However i lived in romford in the fifties and was a member of the now defunked ? romford wheelers. I remember seeing dave bedwell in action--what a powerhouse t he was.
I was one of the young lads who met at kenistons--saw mitch years later in a shop--beleive around southend.
My frame was a jim whittaker--as far as i know jim built the frames himself.
I remember brian bates, ken craven, vic gibbons. --vic gibbons has probably passed on but brian and ken may still be around.
When in the RAF i went out with john woodburn a couple of times--but after 100 yards he"d gone.
Intewresting to read some of vthe threads--feel a bit sad that i had to give it up but have never lost an interest

 

[limey]

I remember the name Ken Craven, never knew him personally, but he seemed to win most of the local TTs no matter the distance 25, 50, 100 and even 12 hours.

Strange how all these names are popping up 40-45 years later!

 

[The Bear]

I knew Vic Gibbons very well from my years in the Brentwood RC. Vic and his wife Peggy were a lovely couple. Vic was coming up 50 when I started racing and he was still club champion year after year - complete with his Sturmey Archer hub gear! One thing I remember about Vic was that he was so young at heart - if my memory is correct he called one of his bikes "Led Zeppelin". In those hairy 70s days that made Vic pretty cool in our eyes. That and the fact that he thrashed us all in our weekly time-trials!

 

[normgow]

I never met Vic Gibbons nor Ken Craven although I rode in a couple of time trials which he won (he nearly always won).
However I remember the Brentwood R.C especially their 100 mile reliabilty trial which they organised each year in February, nowadays this would no doubt be called a "sportive" , a hundred mile burn-up might be a better description. It started at Gallows corner ,headed a short way down the Southend Road before turning left up Warley hill to Brentwood. Then out into the Essex countryside to Ongar, Dunmow,Braintree, Marks Tey and then Maldon where there was a thirty minute stop. Just enough time to answer the call of nature , grab a quick eat and drink and for tired legs to seize up completely, then creaking and groaning head out of Maldon toward Rayleigh weir, cross the Southend Road (A127) down to the Old Southend Road (A13) up Bread and Cheese hill ,then Laindon Hill and back to finish somewhere around the back of Upminster.
If you survived this you were generally set up for the rest of the season.
One year , it may have been 1962 or 1963, I remember a removal lorry turning up at the start and when the rear doors were opened what seemed like half the bike racing population of West London complete with bikes being disgorged from its interior.
An uncomfortable way to get from there to Essex but the lorry was probably stolen so was low cost travel compared to the team buses used by today's stars.

 

[limey]

I remember the event but not all the details like Normgow. Took place around March April as I remember as an early season shakedown before things got serious. There was another that started at Orpington and went via Redhill Reigate Westerham Dorking (not necessarily in that order) about the same time. Good stuff but usually pretty chilly as well.

We have similar events today here in the south of France called "brevets", basically you have to cover a distance, typically 100-130Kms, within a fixed time, typically about 5 hours. Everyone starts together, typically a peleton of 100-120 riders, and the first hour or so is calm and social before hostilities commence. The first finishers average around 32km/h. The first event in 2010 is a tour of the Camargue at the beginning of March if anyone is intersted. I have 4 brevets programmed before the first cyclosportif in May. Be great if we could have an Essex get together.