Routes - but better than Sustrans

[Mike_P]

Plot a route and if parts are unknown have a look at Google Streetscene to see if there are bits that look to be of concern. My pet hate is a sharp bend followed by an incline on a narrow 60mph road. One ride I plotted I discovered required a right turn off an upward rising dual carriageway so I timed the ride to hit that location at around 3pm on a Sunday afternoon when I had correctly assumed it would be relatively quite.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The problem with long distance routes that become popular is that they put a lot of pressure on a relatively minor amount of facilities, for example accommodation or trains. By having people design their own, often from home, you avoid such problems and a wider variety of accommodation providers get support. For instance a couple of weeks ago I did a 5 day circular tour from home on a route I designed myself and encountered no problems finding accommodation and no logistical issues getting to / from start of my tour.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

So why do we need to define one route?

I think that's my question in a nutshell.

Slightly different for you is that your journey has a goal - to visit friends - and it's a repeat event. In the context of a long distance tour I don't think too many are repeat events.

I timed the ride to hit that location at around 3pm on a Sunday afternoon

On a long distance tour that's a level of planning that would fry my head!
But that goes back to the idea that no two cyclists will agree on a route.

they put a lot of pressure on a relatively minor amount of facilities, for example accommodation or trains

I wonder if that's a UK thing?
For example Vienna is a popular stage on the very popular Danube bike route with bikes arriving daily most of the year. Taking a bike on the train out of Vienna was not complicated at all. And I wasn't alone.

The flip side is that accommodation providers or local councils can invest in facilities for bikes. Or train companies in facilities when they know they will be used.

there are some places where the network is dominated by motorways and dual carriageways and a bit of local knowledge is needed to thread

This really is a key point for anyone going long distance far from home.
As always the "threading through" is entirely subjective.

Local authorities are risk-averse, largely because people sue at the drop of a hat these days

I can't imagine the depth and levels of investigation and research that must be done before a signed route goes live. That is something for the OP to understand before investing too much time and effort.

 

[Dogtrousers]

if you take 10 cyclists there will probably be at least 8 (and maybe 12) definitions of a bike tour. And as many varied opinions again on a route. Any route.

Only 12? I think you're being conservative.

Slightly different for you is that your journey has a goal - to visit friends - and it's a repeat event. In the context of a long distance tour I don't think too many are repeat events.

My point was more that going through the area between London and Coventry (Beds, Bucks, Herts, Northants, etc) there's an a huge variety of routes, all just as good as each other (and that's just routes that are to my taste! so omitting offroad). Anyone publishing "the one" route for tourists heading North from London to the Midlands-ish through that area would be ignoring a lot. "The one" route may well be fine, but it would still only be one amongst very many.

The fact that I do it repeatedly isn't really relevant. If someone's doing a long tour that - say - takes in London and heads off to Shakespeare country then it would apply to them.

Where I do think defined routes do have a place is in navigating through urban areas. And my trips up to Coventry demonstrate this. I have one and only one route that gets me to Watford, and this route I have worked out myself and class it as "just about bearable" (Although if we are going up by car I get my wife to drop me off just beyond the M25 and avoid that bit).

 

[byegad]

Having been a Ranger for Sustrans, I gave up because they felt it perfectly acceptable to design and sign a route through a boggy field, and block access for anything wider than an unloaded bike, I feel all routes, published by any organisation needs to come with warnings, be it off road sections, bogs or bust roads.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Only 12? I think you're being conservative.

I can have up to 12 in a single day

The fact that I do it repeatedly isn't really relevant

But it is!

"The one" route may well be fine, but it would still only be one amongst very many.

The long distance tourer (the subject of the OP's exercise) is, in reality, unlikely to do the same tour repeatedly, utilising slightly different routes. They will either create their own or follow "the one". You on the other hand, actively want to do different versions of the same route and have a good reason for doing so.

I think we may be making the same points in slightly different ways.

My curiosity is piqued by those who decide to cycle a route (an "official" route, if you will) rather than having as a starting point somewhere they actually want to go.

The internet is full of questions like " I have three weeks and want to cycle X miles per day. What do you recommend?"

It seems a lot of cyclists decide to follow a route and then decide what is of interest along it and where to spend their time.

I genuinely cannot understand that approach and wonder what other pastimes are approached in that manner?

It seems rarer to decide to go to X and then figure out the best way to do it.

I'm curious as to why this is so.

This is getting away from the OPs thrust though.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The long distance tourer (the subject of the OP's exercise) is, in reality, unlikely to do the same tour repeatedly, utilising slightly different routes. They will either create their own or follow "the one". You on the other hand, actively want to do different versions of the same route and have a good reason for doing so.

I never suggested that a tourist would do a journey repeatedly, or even twice. The fact that I happen to do it repeatedly has nothing to do with my point - which is that there exists in that area of the country a vast multitude of potential routes. And if a tourist wanted to make that journey ONCE (not repeatedly, not twice, just once, one single time only) then the chance that one "official" suggested route will best meet their particular needs is negligible.

I just happen to have found that out by riding from A to B repeatedly. But it does not mean that I expect tourists to do that. I may be daft, but I'm not stupid. If someone asked me for the best route from London to Coventry (and I often answer London-Brighton questions this way) then my answer would be "Get out of London - here's my suggested route, then once past the M25, work it out for yourself, there are loads of lanes"

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I may be daft, but I'm not stupid.

I never suggested such a thing.

This back and forth is of no benefit to the OP.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

Ultimately I don't think we're going to see many more signposted rural on-road touring routes in any case. It's not really Sustrans' priority any more, and local authorities can't really do them without either spending lots of money on infrastructure (which they don't have) or being non-compliant with LTN 1/20.

I suspect we'll see more "virtual" routes like the ones Cycling UK is developing, and like those in the fabulous Lost Lanes books - that is, unsignposted, but with wide circulation, and easy to follow if you have a phone or GPS.

The role of route-planners is kind of interesting in this context. I think we're starting to see "shoaling" on particular roads - i.e. where significant numbers of cyclists are directed to follow some road that route-planners habitually recommend. Does that then start to make the case for infrastructure improvements along that route?

 

[Ian H]

...they are never going to agree to sign the A30 from Shaftesbury to Salisbury as a cycle route...

In the other direction it features on my Exe-Buzzard 600, along with more sections of the same road.

On the other hand, when two of us rode to Salisbury for the Southern reunion, I devised the outward route of mostly by-ways and B-roads in about 20 minutes. Decent maps are your friends.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

example Vienna is a popular stage on the very popular Danube bike route

Vienna is a place with a great deal of alternate facilities but if you funnel riders say through an area where only a few accommodation options exist then you get locations where booking becomes necessary. If riders are on a tour they’ve designed themselves and less wedded to “A particular route” then they can be flexible in their choices and minimised the number of times booking in advance becomes necessary. Perhaps only booking accommodation half way through the day when they decide where their nights destination is, or not booking at all and just knocking on a door when they see a vacancy along the road they happen to be riding.

Bottlenecks for accommodation or transport isn’t just a UK thing.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Vienna is a place with a great deal of alternate facilities

Yes, it is. But I cycled to Vienna. Through places a whole lot smaller and with similar numbers of cyclists on tour.

you funnel riders say through an area where only a few accommodation options exist then you get locations where booking becomes necessary.

Well yes, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The third point on the OPs list of requirements is regular civilisation.

A long distance signed route is not going to pop up overnight. Lots of time to either reflect facilities in the route design or to encourage existing providers of a potential new market.

However, there is always the possibility that a steady stream of cyclists could actually be the catalyst for an expansion of services as mentioned upthread.

This is all pretty irrelevant to the OP, I think, but examples exist of just that. I'm thinking specifically of some of the Camino routes in Spain where the steady stream of pilgrims has kept many villages alive and given employment to locals who would otherwise have left. It's a virtuous circle as better services attract more people.

If riders are on a tour they’ve designed themselves and less wedded to “A particular route” then they can be flexible in their choices

Well, yes and that's just one of many reasons to create a personal tour as opposed to following one off the shelf.
It's why I'm curious why so many follow an "official route".

Bottlenecks for accommodation or transport isn’t just a UK thing.

In fairness I didn't see you address the transport issue and I can point to the relative ease of hop on and hop off trains in mainland Europe. My Vienna example was dismissed despite the fact that lots of bikes arrive and depart daily on the trains.

Yes, bottlenecks for services can exist anywhere. I'm struggling to see the relevance to a long distance route though. Generally, the services will grow to match the demand.
With the likes of AirBnB, just as one example, the market can adjust very quickly. A touring cyclist can have many options. Camping both official, unofficial and the "Camp in my garden" group, there's regular paid accommodation as well as the likes of Warmshowers and that's excluding any personal friends or family given that we seem to be discussing with the UK.

In short, I can see a lot of obstacles for the OP to overcome to achieve their goal but bottlenecks in services or accommodation are well down the list.

I suspect we'll see more "virtual" routes like the ones Cycling UK is developing, and like those in the fabulous Lost Lanes books - that is, unsignposted, but with wide circulation, and easy to follow if you have a phone or GPS.

I recently met a Dutch couple on tour following religiously a guide book by a Dutch author (name forgotten) who gave the most remarkable detail down to recommending individual sites in campgrounds or pointing out where exactly to stop to see something special. They were avid fans and had followed several of his routes (although it was far more than a route).

Interestingly, as well, there's a Dutch guy apparently driving around Europe in a van who collects bikes and gear and drives back to NL with them. They had arranged to leave their bikes and gear at a campground for him to collect in a couple of days while they took a train to Portugal. They have used him before.
Just one example of how demand can inspire a service.

 

[chriswoody]

Well, yes and that's just one of many reasons to create a personal tour as opposed to following one off the shelf.
It's why I'm curious why so many follow an "official route".

Well as you know, many of my tours are following routes curated by other people. Why? well for me the answer is one of time and practicalities. I only get limited time each year to ride on tours, squeezing it in around family and work commitments. This means I have a fixed window of time to complete the tour and return home, bimbling around getting lost and following random roads on a whim can potentially mean I would fail to arrive at my end point on time.

Another issue for me is my predilection for off-road touring, again time comes into play here. Just from studying maps, it's hard to tell if certain paths or trails are rideable and if riding is indeed permitted. This summer in Switzerland was a good example where I plotted a few parts of the route myself and accidently plotted them over public footpaths where bikes were barred access by large gates, re-routing added on 6km of extra off-road riding. It's never fully guaranteed though, riding off-road is always unpredictable, following a route just makes it a little less.

By following where others have been before I can relax in the knowledge that the trail is rideable and that I can ride it in the time I have available. Often I will have a little extra time in reserve, so I can dive off and see other things or ride an interesting trail, like in Brandenburg last year where I diverted off into the nature reserve. Overall though, following someone else's route will not diminish the experience for me instead in means I can relax knowing I can at the very least complete a tour in the time available to me.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

I recently met a Dutch couple on tour following religiously a guide book by a Dutch author (name forgotten) who gave the most remarkable detail down to recommending individual sites in campgrounds or pointing out where exactly to stop to see something special. They were avid fans and had followed several of his routes (although it was far more than a route).

Maybe this chap's books? https://eoscycling.com

There are lots of great curated route websites lost in the mists of Internet time, sadly (and out-of-print books too, of course). Norman D Ford was one of the pioneers but his sites are now only accessible via archive.org: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=23382

 

[HobbesOnTour]

many of my tours are following routes curated by other people

Oh yes, I understand the world of off-road is very, very different.
In fairness, the OP was very specific about on road routes.
In actual fact off-road is the one area of bike touring (without getting bogged down in pedantics) that actually has places where people share routes. But not just routes, tips as well. And usually by enthusiasts not commercial enterprises. (The Bikepackingdotcom site is great!) And that's because it's necessary.

I take your point on time poverty, but again, that's more critical in the off road world where you need to know your route is open and where you can eat, drink and sleep. That takes time to research. Far easier to "borrow" a route.

I'm not advocating for bimbling around, taking whatever road seems nicest and throwing a schedule out of the way. (That's a whole other thread! )
I'm just curious why that it often seems bike tourers want to follow an "official" route as the starting point rather than asking (themselves) where do I want to visit and using the many tools available to put a route (and schedule) together
Many of these are months or even years in advance so time poverty is hardly an issue.

I've been very lucky and have cycled many official routes but they were either beside water or were a way for me to get to where I wanted to go.

It's a philosophical question, I suppose.