Sarah Storey Speaks Out

[jarlrmai]

I've marshalled for a race on open roads and if the wrong type of driver was coming down the road and refused to yield to the flag, it could get real nasty.

 

[S-Express]

That's part of the problem. Drivers are not legally obliged to yield to a marshal's signals - unless they are CSAS qualified. The onus is very much on riders to ride safely, which doesn't always happen.

 

[Proto]

The biggest danger is them riding into each other. Discipline within the UK women's bunch is poor to say the least.

 

[S-Express]

The biggest danger is them riding into each other. Discipline within the UK women's bunch is poor to say the least.

No sorry, I disagree. The biggest danger is a head-on with a vehicle coming the other way. Most people can walk away from a crash in the bunch. I've yet to hear of anyone walking away from a head-on.

 

[Proto]

We'll have to disagree then.

I know of two fatalities in UK road races in recent years where riders hit cars head on. In both instances, I believe, fault lay with the riders (mate of mine was alongside one one of the riders when it happened). Yes, if the road had been closed then, of course they would not have died, but to stop racing because of open roads seems to me to be too much.

I'm not aware of any women riders suffering in the same way. Just that some cut each other up, cause mayhem by braking unnecessarily, and have trouble cornering.

 

[S-Express]

We'll have to disagree then.

I know of two fatalities in road races in recent years where riders hit cars head on. In both instances, I believe, fault lay with the riders (mate of mine was alongside one one of the riders when it happened). Yes, if the road had been closed then, of course they would not have died, but to stop racing because of open roads seems to me to be too much.

I'm not aware of any women riders suffering in the same way. Just that some cut each other up, cause mayhem by braking unnecessarily, and have trouble cornering.

I don't know why you are disagreeing when I presume we both agree that things can't get any worse than a fatal outcome. Obviously it is not a regular occurrence, but it is the risk that organisers, the police and insurers have to mitigate. And currently it can't be mitigated fully, which is why road racing on the roads (in its current form) is inevitably going to be at risk.

I don't think anyone is suggesting stopping open road racing, but the point that people like Sarah Story are making is that the way things are going, the decision will end up being made for us.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

If only those riders who have been injured/killed in the pro peloton knew how less dangerous things were with the events being on closed roads...

 

[S-Express]

If only those riders who have been injured/killed in the pro peloton knew how less dangerous things were with the events being on closed roads...

The most recent being Demoitie, who fell and got hit by a camera bike. Weylandt before that, crashed on a mountain descent. Casarotto before that, head injuries after clipping a car parked on the course. You have to go back to Casartelli in 95 to get the next high profile pro tour fatality.

All any of that proves is that cycling is dangerous - we already know that ffs. The point is how any further risks can be mitigated and/or tolerated. Maybe you should just stop trying to be a smartarse.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Maybe you should just stop trying to be a smartarse.

If by "smartarse" you mean "being right" then I'm afraid that I can't help it.

 

[S-Express]

If by "smartarse" you mean "being right" then I'm afraid that I can't help it.

Obviously you can't help it, so for that reason I think I'll stick with 'smartarse'. But if by 'being right', you mean cycling is potentially dangerous - then yeah, we already know, like I already said. Mind how you go.

 

[oldroadman]

It's regrettable when a serious subject like safety descends into a US presidential type exchange with name calling. Just stop it.
Racing in the UK is not embedded in the culture as in Spain, Belgium, Italy, France, for example. There they have a hundred years or more of proper road racing and people are used to the fact that roads get temporarily closed or made one way for races.
In the UK we have Daily Hate readers and an attitude from authorities that local races (the majority of the just under 500 - not a lot in a year) - are really a bit of a nuisance that holds people up by a few minutes on the way to wherever they may be going.
So we have to deal with the real world. I've been in both, and can be certain that having closure is safer from a vehicle interface point of view (team cars excepted!) but that riders take more risks and there are actually more crashes,
On the open road there are risks, outside of the two fatals mentioned, no news of any other head on incidents at speed.
If the riders who sadly lost their lives took the risk KNOWING it was not a closed road, please explain how this makes racing any more risky. I gather from a contact (no names) that in one incident the oncoming vehicle was virtually stationary.
Ms Storey is entitled to her opinion. Which might be better expressed by simply not race open road events. As it is it's a bit insulting to all the grass rotts VOLUNTEERS who organise races for the "lesser mortals" who plug away for years in their chosen sport FOR FUN.
As for the safety aspect, I've seen two women's races in the last couple of seasons. One open roads one closed. Both had massive crashes with people all over the road. Neither had anything to do with traffic, simply riding standards. This is not specific to women's races. There are plenty of crashes in men's races which may be due to poor standards brought about by lack of experience and a good grounding inside a decent club, with a willingness to listen and not think you know it all because you train well, ride fast, and have a nice bike, belong to a "team".
ORM rant over. Signing off.

 

[S-Express]

If the riders who sadly lost their lives took the risk KNOWING it was not a closed road, please explain how this makes racing any more risky.

You've missed the point. From a rider's point of view, it doesn't 'make it any more risky' than it already is, because that risk has always been there. From an organiser/NGB/liability point of view, it simply re-affirms the 'worst case scenario' which nobody can fully mitigate against. Because mitigation, ultimately, is the problem. And if insurers are no longer prepared to accept those risks, then you either close the roads, or move the racing elsewhere.

I gather from a contact (no names) that in one incident the oncoming vehicle was virtually stationary.

You don't need a mysterious 'contact' to tell you that. It is well-documented public knowledge for anyone who was there, or who takes the time to research it.

 

[oldroadman]

You've missed the point. From a rider's point of view, it doesn't 'make it any more risky' than it already is, because that risk has always been there. From an organiser/NGB/liability point of view, it simply re-affirms the 'worst case scenario' which nobody can fully mitigate against. Because mitigation, ultimately, is the problem. And if insurers are no longer prepared to accept those risks, then you either close the roads, or move the racing elsewhere.



You don't need a mysterious 'contact' to tell you that. It is well-documented public knowledge for anyone who was there, or who takes the time to research it.

As I was not in the country at the time of either of the incidents (one in SW and one in Wales?), dependence for information was from others later in the year.
I must therefore apologise for my ignorance compared to clearly superior knowledge and research skills.
I'm actually a supporter of rolling closures as in ToB for instance, but also from people I know, am aware of the costs, and they are not sustainable for the ordinary club road race, as noted before.
However I do know my history, before BCF was formed BLRC ran road racing and NCU banned it (for fear of antagonising the motoring public). Even earlier than that RTTC had decided "private and confidential" time trials were the only way to race. Look where the NCU and RTTC attitudes got us.
So I would say well done to whoever negotiated the right to race on the road, and it appears that BC(F) are still working away with their marshalling schemes, NEG, etc., to improve conditions. There does seem better acceptance after the sport's profile has been raised by GB riders achievements. All we can ask is that the NGB keeps working away (things move very slowly in government!) and that all involved in road racing keep things sensible and remember the environment they are in, that others worked hard to achieve, without which there would be no road racing at all.

 

[S-Express]

I just meant that it was no 'secret' - much discussed on the internet at the time - possibly even discussed on this forum I would have thought, although l haven't looked that far back.

I'm a big supporter of people not getting killed while road racing - and I imagine that insurers are big fans of avoiding massive payouts for unacceptable risks. While it would be ideal to keep racing on the public roads safely, I think that outside of a few 'set piece' events like the ToB, the big closed road gran fondos or various premier calendar series events, the days of amateur racing on the roads might well be numbered. On the upside, it means a lot more local/regional circuits will have to be built.

 

[Milkfloat]

On the upside, it means a lot more local/regional circuits will have to be built.

Or more likely - the death of racing.