Shift cable life expectancy

[amasidlover]

I installed Jagwire Elite sealed shift cables (on a Whyte Dorset 2014 with rs505 shifters and rd-7000 - 105 rear derailleur) in Jan 2019 and had perfect shifting across all 11 gears. In the last few months shifting has gradually got less precise; it got to the point last week where if I had it on the largest cassette sprocket then it wouldn't shift down at all until I had clicked through all the gears to what should have been the smallest sprocket - at which point it would lurch onto about the middle of the cassette. Shifting upwards (to larger sprockets) is still ok.

I've given it a thorough clean, new chain and a check over at the weekend but down shifts are still very hit and miss; which, in my experience is symptomatic, of 'sticky' cables - I think the Whyte is particularly affected since it has a cable outer running right down to the bottom bracket which adds rather more friction.

I'm generally having to replace (normal non-sealed) cables every 12-18 months on this bike which seems ridiculous. But every time I do I'm back to perfect, precise shifting.

So - am I missing anything? Could it be something other than cables? Is 18 months to 2 years all I can expect from a set of cables (with a long run of outer)? Does modern 105 have significantly weaker return springs than previous generations?

At this rate switching to di2 could save me money over 10 years

 

[rivers]

Have you tried re-indexing the gears?

 

[fossyant]

It's a bit like 'how long is a length of string'. 11 speed is reliant on good cables. You could have a slight kink in the cable, part of the inner PTFE could be worn due too tight a bend etc, etc. My Jagwire lasted two years on a MTB, and replaced with the same. Still going strong.

All depends upon your cleaning regime etc etc.

 

[amasidlover]

Have you tried re-indexing the gears?

I've tweaked them on barrel adjuster to get as close to the full range as possible, but haven't done a full; shift cable off, set limit screws, reset B screw etc. job - not convinced there's much point given that at the moment its struggling to get into both the largest and smallest cogs at the same time... i.e. I can use the barrel adjuster get it to the largest cog reliably but then it takes approx. 3 down shifts on the lever before it drops down to the next largest and then only gets down to about the 3rd smallest cog. If I adjust the barrel adjuster to get it to the smallest cog then it simply won't go into the largest cog.

So I can use the barrel adjusters to get it shifting into both smallest and largest (suggesting the limit screws are ok) and have checked the b-screw setting and it looks ok. I can get a compromise setting which gives me _just about_ the largest cog most of the time, but never the smallest and down shifts are hit and miss.

 

[amasidlover]

It's a bit like 'how long is a length of string'. 11 speed is reliant on good cables. You could have a slight kink in the cable, part of the inner PTFE could be worn due too tight a bend etc, etc. My Jagwire lasted two years on a MTB, and replaced with the same. Still going strong.

All depends upon your cleaning regime etc etc.

I guess that's not far different to what I'm seeing then - 18 months to 2 years of year round Manchester commuting/riding is pretty much like mountain biking

 

[fossyant]

Commuting will hammer cables. My brake cables didn't last long on my commuter before becoming 'rough'. The more 'speeds' the more sensitive is the gearing.

 

[Ajax Bay]

The symptom(s) you describe slap bang point towards an increase in the friction between the inner cable and the outer over time, made faster by 'industrial'/commuting use.

Is 18 months to 2 years all I can expect from a set of cables . . .
18 months to 2 years of year round Manchester commuting/riding . . .

You don't say how many miles you've done since Jan 2019 but think that your expectations are unreasonably high. Annual replacement of the rear inner for sure, and the outer too if there's any 'stickiness'. I don't think the long outer cable run down to the BB shell makes any significant difference, in fact it might be beneficial (ie lower friction).
You could upgrade to say 9 speed where the impact may be less. A bit of squirting of GT85 down any orifice you can find might be therapeutic, but the benefit of that is unclear because one doesn't know whether it actually helps.

but haven't done a full; shift cable off, set limit screws, reset B screw etc. job - not convinced there's much point . . .

Cable off (not the other stuff): Why on earth not? Of course there's a point. Snip off the cable end. Remove the cable completely. Give it a good clean (with WD40) and then a coating of light oil on all the sections which are going to be enclosed in the outer (+2cm). Avoid oiling the cable where it's going to be clamped (ie last 5cm). Reinstall.
If/when you replace, how about trying a different brand to Jagwire Road Elite?
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/3989/best-gear-cable-upgrades-for-slicker-shifting
Finally (and forgive if you are a ninja in this area) but take care to open up each end of the cut outers and use a length of outer for the run from the chainstay to the mech which gives the cable a decent (as opposed to small) radius of curvature.

 

[amasidlover]

Cable off (not the other stuff): Why on earth not? Of course there's a point. Snip off the cable end. Remove the cable completely. Give it a good clean (with WD40) and then a coating of light oil on all the sections which are going to be enclosed in the outer (+2cm). Avoid oiling the cable where it's going to be clamped (ie last 5cm). Reinstall.
If/when you replace, how about trying a different brand to Jagwire Road Elite?
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/3989/best-gear-cable-upgrades-for-slicker-shifting
Finally (and forgive if you are a ninja in this area) but take care to open up each end of the cut cables and use a length of outer for the run from the chainstay to the mech which gives the cable a decent (as opposed to small) radius of curvature.

The reason for not going further was partly time and partly a combination of (suspected) Raynauds and no heated space to do the work - I'm hoping to put off doing much more until I'm able to do the work without numb hands!

I might try removing the inner and giving it a clean if we get another warm spell when I'm not working etc.

In terms of cables; I've been through Shimano Road that came with 105 shifters, Jagwire Pro and then Jagwire Elite.

I think I've got the hang of doing the installs (after 20 years of practice!) - but its always worth checking! I'm optimistic the original install is good as I'm getting at least a year of perfect shifting (I just keep hoping for longer between doing the job...)

But yes, it appears that the consensus is that I'm expecting too much from my cables...

Thanks for the link too - the Transfil cables look like they may be a good alternative to Jagwire Elites.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Sorry your susceptibility to cold is having adverse effects (and I know the (lack of) feeling and the need to minimise exposure thereto - mine is 'just' the result of frostbite and frostnip in earlier years). Sounds like kitchen time and space management is required, with care over protection of its floor to avoid evidence of unauthorised use.
Gears not working properly detracts from enjoying riding.

 

[fossyant]

Wash bike, put in kitchen. Do the work in the warm. I'm lucky I have a garage. At this time of year, it's shut the door and pop the fan heater on.

 

[raleighnut]

The reason for not going further was partly time and partly a combination of (suspected) Raynauds and no heated space to do the work - I'm hoping to put off doing much more until I'm able to do the work without numb hands!

I might try removing the inner and giving it a clean if we get another warm spell when I'm not working etc.

In terms of cables; I've been through Shimano Road that came with 105 shifters, Jagwire Pro and then Jagwire Elite.

I think I've got the hang of doing the installs (after 20 years of practice!) - but its always worth checking! I'm optimistic the original install is good as I'm getting at least a year of perfect shifting (I just keep hoping for longer between doing the job...)

But yes, it appears that the consensus is that I'm expecting too much from my cables...

Thanks for the link too - the Transfil cables look like they may be a good alternative to Jagwire Elites.

I use Clarks stainless gear cables and oil them well before installing.

 

[yo vanilla]

It's a bit like 'how long is a length of string'. 11 speed is reliant on good cables. You could have a slight kink in the cable, part of the inner PTFE could be worn due too tight a bend etc, etc. My Jagwire lasted two years on a MTB, and replaced with the same. Still going strong.

All depends upon your cleaning regime etc etc.

I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I after long trials discovered a slight kink in the shift cable at the shifter end, right as it entered the cable housing when released to the smallest cog. Took me forever to figure this out. I would clean, re-grease, re-index, and this would often give me nice shifting for about half a mile and then start hanging while shifting to the smallest cog. So perhaps the new grease compensated for the kink over that very short time... worth examining!

 

[fossyant]

I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I after long trials discovered a slight kink in the shift cable at the shifter end, right as it entered the cable housing when released to the smallest cog. Took me forever to figure this out. I would clean, re-grease, re-index, and this would often give me nice shifting for about half a mile and then start hanging while shifting to the smallest cog. So perhaps the new grease compensated for the kink over that very short time... worth examining!

Doesn't take much for them not to work !!!

 

[amasidlover]

So, I took the inner out with the intention of giving it a wipe with GT85 and running it back through; unfortunately, once I'd done that I noticed that one of the wire filaments had splayed making it impossible to get back through (tried cutting it down with cable cutters but it split again). Thankfully I had a spare jagwire inner and even a spare teflon liner so I replaced both.

The shifting is now much better but its still not perfect (on down shifts - i.e. when the derailleur pulls the cable through that has been released from the shifter) - which leaves either the very short run from the cable adjuster under the handlebars to the shifter or the rear derailleur as needing replacing...

 

[Moodyman]

With gear indexing, it's almost always the cable that's the problem. Might have a kink or a tight bend or is sticking somewhere. New cables with old outers can take a while to bed together. New cables with new outers the same. Both would benefit from a few drops of oil. GT85 is ok, but isn't a long term solution.

Also, clean your derailleur, oil the pivots and work it in. Then wipe off excess oil.