Shifter/brake options

[RichardB]

OK, bear with me while I think aloud. I have recently acquired a Dawes Galaxy Cromo with Shimano ST-3500 STI combined brake/shifter levers. It's the first bike I have had with STI, and I am not 100% convinced by them. Four main reasons: 1) the gear change is not pleasant to use, it's notchy and needs a lot of force, especially the front changer, or perhaps the angle is just awkward for my hands; 2) I don't feel confident about hard braking (there are a lot of long and/or steep hills around me) as the levers can move sideways under hand pressure; 3) I'm not sure they would be repairable/bodgeable in the middle of a long tour; as I understand it from reading online, if the tiniest spring inside breaks, it's a new lever (£££) or nothing; and 4) the gear cable position (coming inwards from the levers) means I can't use my Karrimor bar bag with R&K Klik-fix. I've tried it, and the bag puts an unacceptable bend in the cables.. On the plus side, they look fabulous and the hoods are very comfy to ride on.

The bike I have done most lifetime miles on was a 1970-ish Carlton Corsair with plain drop brake levers and downtube friction shifters. I got on well with that bike, and I would be more than happy with the same spec on the Galaxy. However, times have moved on, and it's STI or nothing, it seems. I'm obviously going to give the Galaxy a lot more time and miles so that I give it a fair trial, but looking ahead I am wondering about the possibility of changing to plain brake levers (not fussed if aero or traditional) and a different shifting arrangement, either downtube or bar-end (not fussed if indexed or friction). I understand that levers compatible with caliper brakes will be OK with the Tektro cantilevers - true? Will I need all new cables, or just the levers/shifters? Will ordinary friction shifters work OK with a 9-speed cassette? Are there any gotchas (i.e. basic incompatibility) that I need to be aware of? The intended use of the bike is commuting, day rides and solo touring. I'm not interested in outright speed and I don't race. I prefer to be surrounded by things that I understand and can fix, rather than having to have the latest technology. Space on the bar tops for computer, light and bar bag fixtures is very desirable.

I have never used bar-end shifters, but back in the day they were standard touring equipment and I'm willing to give them a try. Anyone care to offer an opinion on the above nonsense? Talk me out of it, tell me I have the right idea, tell me why it is impossible/possible/vitally necessary? Any pros and cons or personal observations? As I said, I am only at the stage of mildly considering changing things, but once I get hold of an idea I tend to worry at it until I find a solution. Don't tell me to sell the bike and get something different, because I love it to bits already (and I might even love the STI in time, who knows?). Thank you for reading this far.

 

[Slioch]

My 10 year old Galaxy has the bar end shifters, and I get on with them very well. They are indexed, and change gear with a very satisfying "click". The problem you would have though is that the gear cables would still invade the space where your bar bag would go.

Would you consider upgrading to Shimano 105 spec'? Both the gear and brake cables run under the handlebar tape so are out of the way of the bar bag, and you would find the shifting action a lot smoother than your current Sora shifters, which can be a bit agricultural by all accounts.

 

[RichardB]

Ah, thank you ... agricultural just about sums it up. I'm a complete novice wrt this STI thing and the different levels of kit. As I said somewhere in another thread, my bicycle up-to-dateness stopped in about 1995. I suppose upgrading depends on the cost, and also I'd hate the feeling of stripping off brand-new stuff to ... what? Keep in the shed 'just in case'? Sell on eBay? I have seen some Dia Compe levers and shifters which might be suitable, but I have no idea whether they are reasonable quality or not. Very hard to tell from website photos, but the price is nowhere near Shimano levels, which suggests they are cheap and cheerful. I think it's the satisfying 'click' you mention that I am missing. I could shift perfectly with the basic friction downtube shifters on the Carlton, and with the indexed shifters on my previous Galaxy, and both were enjoyable to use. The Sora shifters are noisy and notchy, not satisfying at all. I'm at work at the moment, but when I get home I will check the bike over for things like shifter bosses on the downtube - I suspect there aren't any

At a quick look, the cables from bar end shifters would exit the bars lower than the base of the bar bag (I think), so that might not be a problem.

Thank you for the reply. It's all helpful.

 

[Slioch]

I'm just off to the airport to drop the wife off now, but when I get back I'll post up a picture of the cable positions on my bike so you can make a judgement about the cable position.

 

[RichardB]

Thanks

 

[raleighnut]

With bar end shifters you can route the cables under the bar tape as far as you like (even right up to the stem) but you will need longer outers than supplied with em, luckily you can get gear outer on a roll and cut it to length.
The Dura-Ace ones I've got can also be switched between friction and indexed but the Campagnolo Record ones on another of my bikes cannot (they're index only)

 

[Slioch]

Here's the pictures of how my cables look on my bar end shifters. As @raleighnut says above, it would be possible to route them all the way around under the bar tape with longer outers.

 

[KneesUp]

Not much to add other than I have bar ends and love them - almost unbreakable, unobtrusive, easy to use and cheap. Ideal for me

My cables don't come as far up the drop as @Slioch 's

 

[Slioch]

My cables don't come as far up the drop as @Slioch 's

I re-wrapped the bar tape recently and did consider running the cables all the way up to close to the stem to tidy things up a bit, but I'm a bit thingy about putting too many bends into the gear cables as I'm worried it might compromise the shifting performance. As I don't use a bar bag I left things as they are.

 

[mjr]

Four main reasons: 1) the gear change is not pleasant to use, it's notchy and needs a lot of force, especially the front changer, or perhaps the angle is just awkward for my hands; 2) I don't feel confident about hard braking (there are a lot of long and/or steep hills around me) as the levers can move sideways under hand pressure; 3) I'm not sure they would be repairable/bodgeable in the middle of a long tour; as I understand it from reading online, if the tiniest spring inside breaks, it's a new lever (£££) or nothing; and 4) the gear cable position (coming inwards from the levers) means I can't use my Karrimor bar bag with R&K Klik-fix.

Problems 1 and 4 could be resolved with new shifters or cable routing, but the other two are the reasons I've never deliberately switched to indexing - and have actually upgraded other bikes to friction shifting if there was any reason to do so.

However, times have moved on, and it's STI or nothing, it seems.

Why write that? Shimano 600 friction levers are still available, as are some plastic ones and the Dia Compe alternatives and probably some others.

Will I need all new cables, or just the levers/shifters? Will ordinary friction shifters work OK with a 9-speed cassette?

I think just new levers. Friction shifters will work OK but you'd be aiming at a narrower slice of cassette compared to old bikes, so you'd need to be more precise. http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html says you've 4.34mm center-to-center for Shimano 9-speed, rather than the 5.5mm on my old 5-speed.

I don't know about Tektro cantilever brake compatibility or bar-end shifters.

 

[KneesUp]

I re-wrapped the bar tape recently and did consider running the cables all the way up to close to the stem to tidy things up a bit, but I'm a bit thingy about putting too many bends into the gear cables as I'm worried it might compromise the shifting performance. As I don't use a bar bag I left things as they are.

Ah, I meant the other way - mine isn't under the tape at all now I look more closely (excuse the appallingly tatty bar tape)

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

I had bar-end shifters on my first CX bike, they worked perfectly, memory tells me it was a pre-indexing set up though


The best tip I was given was to trim about 1 -2 inches off the ends of the bars, or the shifters stick out too much, and can get knocked at an inopportune moment

A friend/work-collegue runs bar-enders (Dura-Ace, I think, as he says that's the only Shimano model still available) on his Surley commuter/work-bike & is very happy with them

My cables went under the tape to the stem, as it meant less to tangle in the event of a crash, or interaction with a tree......

I've not got many pictures of it, after losing a lot to damp garage storage, during a house move, but here's a couple that were pre-scanned

 

[RichardB]

Here's the pictures of how my cables look on my bar end shifters. As @raleighnut says above, it would be possible to route them all the way around under the bar tape with longer outers.

View attachment 100054 View attachment 100055 View attachment 100056 View attachment 100057 View attachment 100058 View attachment 100059

Thanks for taking these, much appreciated. The hooks on mine are more horizontal, and I'm pretty sure there would be clearance for the bar bag. Looks promising, cheers.

 

[RichardB]

Why write that? Shimano 600 friction levers are still available, as are some plastic ones and the Dia Compe alternatives and probably some others.

The comment was meant slightly ironically. I know there are some bikes on sale with non-STI kit, but STI seems to be the rule on most mid-range bikes.

I think just new levers. Friction shifters will work OK but you'd be aiming at a narrower slice of cassette compared to old bikes, so you'd need to be more precise. http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html says you've 4.34mm center-to-center for Shimano 9-speed, rather than the 5.5mm on my old 5-speed.

I don't know about Tektro cantilever brake compatibility or bar-end shifters.

Good point about the cassette spacing, thanks. From my webular reading, I gather that levers which are suitable for caliper brakes (short pull/high mechanical advantage) are also suitable for cantilevers, but not for V-brakes (long-pull, low MA). However, as usual, there are various opinions about this, and I was wondering if anyone had direct experience.

 

[swee'pea99]

If it was me, I'd stick with the ST-3500s for a bit longer before ditching them. I have Soras on my tourer (a wee poem for you!) and 105 on my carbon, and it's true the latter are significantly and noticeably better than the former: less travel, less wobbliness, greater precision. At first I found it a bit disconcerting (I had the 105 setup before I got the Sora), but I got used to it reasonably quickly, and wouldn't dream of going back to separate brakes & shifters.