Shocked by peoples reluctance to spend relatively small amounts on a bike.

[I like Skol]

People are strange. I get asked why my prices are so high all the time. I am a dog groomer and I travel to the client's home, set up my kit, bath and dry their dog, clip and scissor, toe nails etc etc, put up with lots of inane chatter (not all my customers are inane, some are just wonderful) hoover up afterwards and then they try to haggle saying £30 is a lot of money, will I take a tenner. No I flaming won't.

If I hear "there's a recession on you know" one more time from a customer with a 60" plasma tv, brand spanking new leather 3 piece and a TV in each room, I will scream.

I have a good mechanic and pay a reasonable rate for his work, I have a great vet and pay a lot for his work. Mechanics, Electricians, Plumbers etc charge a decent hourly rate for their work but I can't get anything like that, bike mechanics can't but hairdressers charge a heck of a lot. My neighbour pays £45 for her haircut and she is in the chair for 45 minutes. £1 a minute. Nice pay if you can get it.

If all us small businesses charged (and got) what we were worth in terms of training, experience and skill I am sure we would all be most happy. People are paying us to do a task that they are incapable of doing, Then they moan about the cost.

I do all my own bike repairs, car servicing/repairs, decorating, nail clipping and hair cutting. How much should I be paying myself?

 

[Gravity Aided]

Amazing. 80 Quid for an oil change?
I used to work in the Photography Industry, mostly as a manager of stores and laboratories. I'm happier driving a 'bus, thank you, with free time to ride bicycles. Processing was the same way. People brought their film to our lab, and wanted the quality we gave, for the price at Walgreens. As a bicycle repair consultant, I sometimes sell or trade bicycles to pawn shops and thrift stores . I help them when they find a whattzit bike or part. And I often take trades as part or full payment. Much less grief than the "General Public" Mrs. GA likes the self-supporting aspect of the hobby. Having seen the business end of business, as our old shop owner used to call it, (GRHS-Last Week) I can sympathise with the OPs plight. Courtesy, respect, and service, no matter what. Grumble later, to sympathetic ears.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

People are strange. I get asked why my prices are so high all the time. I am a dog groomer and I travel to the client's home, set up my kit, bath and dry their dog, clip and scissor, toe nails etc etc, put up with lots of inane chatter (not all my customers are inane, some are just wonderful) hoover up afterwards and then they try to haggle saying £30 is a lot of money, will I take a tenner. No I flaming won't.

If I hear "there's a recession on you know" one more time from a customer with a 60" plasma tv, brand spanking new leather 3 piece and a TV in each room, I will scream.

I have a good mechanic and pay a reasonable rate for his work, I have a great vet and pay a lot for his work. Mechanics, Electricians, Plumbers etc charge a decent hourly rate for their work but I can't get anything like that, bike mechanics can't but hairdressers charge a heck of a lot. My neighbour pays £45 for her haircut and she is in the chair for 45 minutes. £1 a minute. Nice pay if you can get it.

If all us small businesses charged (and got) what we were worth in terms of training, experience and skill I am sure we would all be most happy. People are paying us to do a task that they are incapable of doing, Then they moan about the cost.

I get the whole point of your post and do agree with some of the sentiment. I have a wealthy-ish to wealthy client base for my small business and I am occasionally amazed when a jaw drops at my prices but to be fair it doesn't happen too often.

However, what you have done there is what customers/potential customers sometimes do; they assume that what you charge is your pay.

By the time all overheads (including the oft forgotten by small businesses; depreciation) 'pay' is nowhere near the headline figure. Which you'll know anyway.

Re: charging. Businesses do get what they are worth. At the end of the day, customers ultimately set the prices due to supply and demand. Whether the service provider thinks their services are worth more is neither here nor there.

 

[Cyclopathic]

It is insane. I spent a couple of hours checking the bike out then said what it would cost. He has gone very quiet despite reminders. Tempted to offer a couple of hundred for it as he bought it for 500 from a mate some years ago. If I was to buy it I would upgrade the wheels.

Do it. Do it. He doesn't appreciate what he's got. Just remember to low ball the guy because as we all know it's only a bike and you can pick a bike up from the scrap yard can't you. Grrr

 

[Cyclopathic]

So what do you recon a full susser with rock shock psylo sl front and rock shock rear with a mix of XT and XTR is worth. Has no brakes though. About 10 years old but very little use.

I'm not well up on my mountain bikes. I'd have to do a bit of research on the internet and ask around but at a glance I'd say not a bargain bucket bike by any means. Brakes can be sorted quite cheaply and well from new and can be up-graded at a later date. I'm a believer in an optimum price for something i.e brake set that costs £200 isn't necessarily going to be 4 times better than one that cost £50 etc..
I think though that if he paid £500 for a 10 year old bike with that spec he got a good deal or at least a fair one.
If he's gone quite on you it might well be worth offering him something for it or it might be worth trying to encourage him to spend a bit now to get a really good bike. Tell him that the alternative is to sell this one and put the money towards a bike that is in full working order but it won't be half the bike he could have for just biting the bullet and getting the job done. It's called wear and tear and all mechanical systems suffer from it. If you keep a Rolls Royce well maintained then in 20 years you still have a Rolls Royce. etc..

 

[Cyclopathic]

I can see where you're coming from, but I can also understand their point of view. I'm a cheapskate myself, I refuse to pay labour charges so that's why I do my own repairs as much as possible, both on my bike and even on my car, I reckon I've saved a few hundreds of pounds worth of labour over the years both on the bike and on the car.

Well quite, you do the work yourself. I can see where they were coming from only insofar as they were unaware of the time it can take and the costs of actually doing it for a living.
I like to think I offer something a bit different to Halfords and other big chains. I did try to save his original back wheel even though I knew it was futile. I just wanted to at least have tried and to have told him so honestly. The chain which was rusted up and could ideally have done with replacing (for which I'd have charged £15 to fit a chain with an rrp of £13) I took off, wire brushed, washed in parafin, replaced and oiled to the point where it virtually looked new. I had also tested it with a wear guage so knew it still had life in it I did not just put a chain back on that was effed.
In short I went the extra mile, which is something I want to do for my customers circumstances permitting. Ihear a lot of tales of woe from people who have had bad experiences with bike shops big and small and I have had those experiences myself and been made to feel uncomfortable and patronised which is something I want to completely avoid. So yes I see it from their point of view but I think their point of view was wrong in this instance.

 

[Cyclopathic]

I'm like that do in that I try to everything I can myself but sometimes, you will not have the tools, knowledge or experience to tackle something and it is reasonable to expect the "expert" you employ to charge for his time. We all have to make a living.

Obviously the people in the OP with the Raleigh Pioneer didn't have the knowledge, skills, or tools to sort it out themselves so they are going to have to get someone else to do it and they need to expect that at the very least they will have to cover the expenses plus whatever the value the OP puts on his time (likely a lot less than a car mechanic). Their alternative is to acquire the skills themselves or buy a new bike. They are free to shop around. To complain about it is nonsense.

I have to be fair to them here and make it clear that they did not actually complain to me. What they did was talk between themselves in front of me about how they had only really intended it to be a cheap bike to get to work on. They are both very nice people and did understand things a bit more when I explained it to them.
When I wrote the op I was still reeling so it may have come out sounding like I had something against them personally which I did and do not so I apologize to any one who got that impression. What they did though was to illustrate a certain mindset that some people have towards bikes and how their price and maintenace are not perhaps as worthy as other things. I used this couple as an examople as it was so fresh in my mind.

 

[Cyclopathic]

I always think of that old chestnut about the factory that was shut down because there was a problem with the assembly line, they were losing thousands by the minute and none of the firms engineers could fix it "Too old" they said "Obsolete system." Then somebody suggested contacting 'old Bob' that used to work in the factory but is freelance now. Bob came and fixed it in about ten minutes, his bill came to £153.00. The factory manager said "153 quid for ten minutes work?" Bob said "The breakdown is £2 for the time £1 for the gizmo and £150 for the knowledge of where to put the gizmo."

I've met quite a lot of people on whom I'd know exactly where to put the gizmo.

 

[yello]

You're a saint sir. Perhaps even too nice to be in business I sincerely hope not. Going the extra mile, having a bit of personal pride, is where the sole trader could have the advantage over the faceless chain store. I wish you every success.

 

[Cyclopathic]

Cyclopathic - great post, I have every sympathy, been self employed for 30 years! Best response in this situation would be, well feck off then, and find someone stupid enough to do it for less.

They were alright people really, I was just venting spleen about this particular attitude. I have said as much to one customer who basically wanted something for nothing but went about it in a much more objectionable way and would do again in the future. Attitude certainly has a lot to do with it. I can forgive some ignorance but I absolutely cannot stand people with a sense of entitlement. Entitlement in short to my bloody money.

 

[Saluki]

I get the whole point of your post and do agree with some of the sentiment. I have a wealthy-ish to wealthy client base for my small business and I am occasionally amazed when a jaw drops at my prices but to be fair it doesn't happen too often.

However, what you have done there is what customers/potential customers sometimes do; they assume that what you charge is your pay.

By the time all overheads (including the oft forgotten by small businesses; depreciation) 'pay' is nowhere near the headline figure. Which you'll know anyway.

Re: charging. Businesses do get what they are worth. At the end of the day, customers ultimately set the prices due to supply and demand. Whether the service provider thinks their services are worth more is neither here nor there.

I know that hairdressers don't actually earn £1 a minute, most of them are on minimum wage plus any tips. I just meant to point out that people don't baulk at paying a hairdresser £45 for a cut and blow dry (I would though) and are then shocked that their dog costs 2/3 of that cost for a lot more work.
My neighbour has asked us, just this morning, to fix her bike for her. We will gladly sort it out for her but we did say that she needed a couple of tyres as hers are knacked, which she agreed were definitely past their best and pointed out the hole in one of them and the split in the other. After showing her Wiggle, she was amazed that tyres cost so much - I suggested Schwalbe Land Cruiser Tyres at £13.59 each. I have them on my MTB and they are great for what I need them for and I think for commuting to work over the track they will be great for her. She asked if we would get them on our account (???) and she will give us some jam and a bottle of wine for the 'work' on her bike. What she is asking is will we fix her bike, pay out £27 and change and not ask for any recompense for the parts. We will happily fix her bike for free but she needs to buy her own tyres which I will fit. She rang Howards for a quote for a full service and 2 tyres and the had to have a sit down. It was not an expensive quote by any measure. It was less than £100.
Needless to say the bike is going back in the shed untouched.

As someone was saying before about fixing computers etc for friends. I used to be a Network Engineer back in the late 90s and I got the whole 'will you fix my PC thing' and I would spend hours sorting out their little network and PCs for a 'Ta, see you soon then'. Now I tell them I'm a luddite and have forgotten most of it, which is true

 

[Cyclopathic]

You're a saint sir. Perhaps even too nice to be in business I sincerely hope not. Going the extra mile, having a bit of personal pride, is where the sole trader could have the advantage over the faceless chain store. I wish you every success.

Thanks. I can afford to do little extra bits when there are no bikes waiting in the wings and little things like the lights I was never going to use and took me 10 minutes to fit will hopefully stay with them and they will tell their friends who have bikes. I sometimes give away old pumps that I'vge aqiured or fit a second hand bell that's knocking about. Stuff that cost me nothing. Technically I could charge a couple of quid for these bits and bobs but I think the gesture buys far more than £2 good will.

 

[Cyclopathic]

I bought an immaculate 1991 Raleigh roadbike off ebay for £48 and sold some of the tasteless 'upgrades' fitted in the quest for 'improvement' for nearly £30. I had more suitable retro bits in the spares box and now my son has a lovely 531 framed bike with a new junior sized saddle for a little over £20.

Who says good bikes aren't dirt cheap

It can be done I know but I think you have to have a certain amount of luck. Also you obviously have experience and know what you are looking at so can spot a bargain. It's far more the exception than the rule these days. For one thing there are a lot of knowledgeable people like yourself around snapping up these bargains.
Good knobble though. I know I'd have been as pleased as punch to have pulled off that deal. You could make your fortune if you could find a couple of those a day.

 

[cd365]

I was once asked to make some changes to some software that I had written a couple of years earlier. I didn't really want to go back and change it, but thought I should be reasonable and reluctantly agreed to do it. I thought it would take about 3 days and said that I wanted £300. The company tried to argue that I was overcharging so I said that I was going to ask 2 questions and I wanted honest answers ...

1. Would the man asking me to do it be prepared to do it himself for less than twice what I was charging? (Answer: Er, no!)
2. Was the company charging the customer at least ten times what I was asking for? (Answer: Er, yes!)

In the end, they paid me my £300.

Wow, £300 is stupidly cheap for three days programming work and they argued. I would have told them to forget it and when they came back the price would have gone up to £500.

 

[ColinJ]

Wow, £300 is stupidly cheap for three days programming work and they argued. I would have told them to forget it and when they came back the price would have gone up to £500.

It was 10 years ago, but I was still pretty peeved. I was aware that the company would invoice the customer for thousands and considered that charging only 10% of that was a damn good deal!