Should cyclists be allowed to run red lights?

[martint235]

I wonder why that is so certain to be the case here in the UK, whereas the USA, Copenhagen, Germany, Holland and Barcelona (to name five other places cited on this page of the thread alone) seem to have no such problems

Differences in culture perhaps. People always spout on about how Dutch cycling infrastructure will work in the UK, I remain unconvinced. To highlight a difference in culture, in Germany, Holland and Barcelona (I've got limited experience of the US and none of Copenhagen) you don't seem to have the same issues around people falling over p****d and puking all over the streets on Friday night.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I wonder why that is so certain to be the case here in the UK, whereas the USA, Copenhagen, Germany, Holland and Barcelona (to name five other places cited on this page of the thread alone) seem to have no such problems

There are significant cultural differences across Europe, as evidenced by the discussions above. They don't have special exemptions for bikes or other classes of vehicle in the USA, it's for all vehicles as far as I remember.

I still see no pressing need for change. As I ride through London in the mornings I never think "gosh darn it, if only I could turn left on this red I'd get to work 17 seconds earlier". I just wait for green. If I wanted to be in work a bit earlier I would get up a bit earlier, or trim 17 seconds from my coffee drinking time.

 

[Milkfloat]

One difference between the places mentioned where road users co-exist peacefully and the apparently adversarial system here is 'presumed liability'. I suspect that 'knowing your place' removes a lot of confrontational behaviour.

If anything cyclists are tolerated less in the US and there is certainly not any presumed liability that favours the cyclist.

 

[Ian H]

If anything cyclists are tolerated less in the US and there is certainly not any presumed liability that favours the cyclist.

Precisely.

 

[Dan B]

If anything cyclists are tolerated less in the US and there is certainly not any presumed liability that favours the cyclist.

Which was part of my point, really. Germany, Holland, Barcelona, US - all very different places/attitudes from each other as well as from the UK, why is our adversarial road culture apparently unique?

 

[Milkfloat]

Which was part of my point, really. Germany, Holland, Barcelona, US - all very different places/attitudes from each other as well as from the UK, why is our adversarial road culture apparently unique?

I was agreeing with you. I really don't think we are unique, I have lived in the US, UK and the Netherlands and on the whole we are very similar. I analyze driving patterns worldwide as part of my job using trillions of points of data, you will be surprised about how similar the patterns are in every country in the world. For example, you have a common misconception that the germans all obey the speed limit and russians always speed, but actually on the whole we are all very similar, however you do see some small differences in southern european countries with regards to one ways, but largely this is 'scooter/moped culture'.

 

[Brandane]

As I ride through London in the mornings I never think "gosh darn it, if only I could turn left on this red I'd get to work 17 seconds earlier". I just wait for green.

As I ride through the cold and wet of smalltown Ayrshire I tend to think "WTF am I doing stopped at this red light getting cold, when there isn't another road user to be seen? I'll just have a good look around, and if it's safe to proceed then I'll go!"

Do red lights in London only stay red for 17 seconds? Lucky you.

 

[Dogtrousers]

As I ride through the cold and wet of smalltown Ayrshire I tend to think "WTF am I doing stopped at this red light getting cold, when there isn't another road user to be seen? I'll just have a good look around, and if it's safe to proceed then I'll go!"

Do red lights in London only stay red for 17 seconds? Lucky you.

Fair enough.

(I plucked 17 seconds out of the air. Assuming that I had arrived at the red 17 secs before it went green)