Should I have my dog put down?

[Archie_tect]

Different people see problems in different ways. My uncle, a farmer, has had many happy dogs during his life but wouldn't bat an eyelid taking an unreliable and aggressive dog out and shooting it. My cousin [not related to the uncle] a teacher, retrained as a dog psychologist 'specialising' in behavioural problems and her life is stressed out trying to teach owners how to control their pets. Her own dog is uncontrollable and a disaster... as a consequence I wouldn't hesitate in having it put down.
It may sound cruel to some but try not to react emotionally, yello no longer has an emotional tie to the dog and needs pragmatic advice- French famers are no different to English ones. Return it to the rescue place if that is a viable option but with such a bad history who would even consider rehousing such an aggressive unreliable animal?

 

[yello]

I know they can be difficult, highly strung or sometimes even aggressive, particularly if they are from farm stock and not worked.

We don't really know his background, other than his previous owner had him from a pup before he had to go into a retirement home. So we think Sam wasn't a working dog and had been with the same one person for his entire life. He was such a anxious wreck in the rescue home when we saw him, terrified by pretty much everything around him. He's happy in his surroundings here but gets very upset when something disrupts his world. He has stacks of energy and gets bored very easily, needing a lot of attention. I feel for him, because he clearly loves to go out and run freely but it's not possible to take him out for a run everyday when they weather's been as it has.... the poor old boy is going stir crazy!

My face is starting to ache a little now (I was bitten on my jaw line) and I half expect for there to be some swelling, bruising and/or stiffness tomorrow.

Edit: In answer to another response, we've had Sam just on a year now. Whilst there has been progress, we have to now admit defeat.

 

[Archie_tect]

Some collies can be incredibly paranoid at the best of times, with repetitive behaviour and strong herding, protective streaks so maybe Sam needs to live somewhere more remote and less confining so he can built up confidence where there won't be as much contact with strangers. Have you had a recent tetanus jab by the way?

 

[yello]

My uncle, a farmer, has had many happy dogs during his life but wouldn't bat an eyelid taking an unreliable and aggressive dog out and shooting it.

Yes, it's definitely a rural v urban attitude. We even feel a little silly taking our dogs to the vets since the vets are mainly involved with livestock! We've arrived at the vets once to see a calf on a drip in the boot of a car. Dogs around here are invariably hunting dogs; caged for the majority of the year only to get a run on a couple of days a week in hunting season. Different world.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

I'm not sure we can take the risk any more.

Think you answered the question yourself, the fact the dog has bitten it's master means anyone is fair game.... the question is who's next and when, is it going to be your family? or your kids? or a guest? or someone else's children?
Why pass the problem or risk onto someone else.
Put the dog down imho, not all animals make good domestic pets and at some point this dog will bite someone again imho

 

[yello]

Some collies can be incredibly paranoid at the best of times, with repetitive behaviour and strong herding, protective streaks so maybe Sam needs to live somewhere more remote and less confining so he can built up confidence where there won't be as much contact with strangers. Have you had a recent tetanus jab by the way?

He paces around like a schizophrenic when bored! And has worn paths in the lawn pacing his usual routes. He loves to herd, it's there as an instinct even if he's never done it for real. We have to watch him around children because he'll round them up. He actually nipped a friend's daughter once, not good at all, fortunately it surprised her more than upset her.

My last tetanus jab was around 3 years ago.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

A dog that has already nipped(a euphemism for bite) a child, attacked its owner and is generally out of control. Without wanting to sound callous, why is the dog still alive posing further risks? Sorry, just being realistic, if your dog bites anyone else you could be in a world of trouble.

 

[Archie_tect]

You tried your best yello, it's time.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Sam needs to live somewhere more remote and less confining so he can built up confidence where there won't be as much contact with strangers

I agree he needs to go somewhere where he is even less used to seeing people, so when innocent people like myself who enjoy hiking remote trails and public footpaths that can cross farm land and similar are unexpected and freak him out extensively.
The number of times I have received aggression from dogs in remote public area is excessive and not fair

If the dog is not safe to be around the public put it down. I don't deserve to be bitten for enjoying hiking in remote area's

 

[Archie_tect]

It was just a passing thought V, a dog scared of people would run a mile unconfined but I agree Sam's time is up.
But watch out riding on remote private land- some farm dogs are encouraged to be lethal, precisely to stop intruders.

 

[yello]

A dog that has already nipped(a euphemism for bite) a child, attacked its owner and is generally out of control. Without wanting to sound callous, why is the dog still alive posing further risks? Sorry, just being realistic, if your dog bites anyone else you could be in a world of trouble.

Without wishing to get into the semantics of it, there is a difference between a nip and a bite though I appreciate the person on the receiving end of it might not give a toss. It's takes you back to be nipped, it doesn't hurt and there's absolutely no intention by the dog to inflict damage. It's a reminder, or something they do when playing.

But I take your final point and it is motivating my thinking. I am painfully aware (and that's not just a pun!) that biting is not something to be tolerated. I'm equally aware that owner's assurances of their dogs 'just be friendly' cannot be trusted - simply because none of them, if they are honest, can actually control their dogs.

 

[yello]

IIf the dog is not safe to be around the public put it down. I don't deserve to be bitten for enjoying hiking in remote area's

I agree entirely.

 

[Cycling Dan]

From what you have wrote. The Dog is not violence he/she is just very loud and acts up for people. Which in fairness is normal for a animal as it was to impress.
Now i will get some grief for this but.... its true.
Alot of people blaim their pets for there own failing to notice their communication.
I have cats and they bite but this is when you do something that they don't want you to do. I get plenty of warnings i just fail to notice or don't understand.
When you pulled the dog were you behind it? if so the fact there were new people in front it very well could have though it was being attacked and lashed out.If the dog is feeling threated this is a BIG NO NO
I ask did the dog stop as soon as it did it or did you have to push it off to stop it from biting?
If it stopped as soon as it bit it may have realized what it had done and was wrong. It then simply lashed out as it though under threat and with it being a possible new home it was not the best thing to do.
Also i have to ask how long as the dog been with you? if its new it still may feel unsafe and the fact new people are in and out like all the time will not help this but most likely make the dog feel more insecure.
When you say they say he was never controllable or predictable who where these people? If it was a pound worker or leader for example then i take the point but if its a Jane dough then they may well not know how to handle or teach a dog.

Take the dog to a trainer and see what can be done. Also try take the dog to a vet and get him neutered if its a male an still has his testicles. Male dogs are like this alot when they still have there testicles to release hormones.
If its new to the home put the dog in its own room and isolate it, only have you and your wife see the dog. This way it has a room it feels safe it. This can take around a week maybe less. Then let the dog venture out and check out other rooms.

Putting an animal down is always the last step to take and should not be taken lightly. There is always a reason behind an action and as its owner you have a duty to find out. If it turns out nothing is possible and its a threat and violent then take the necessary steps but from what you have wrote there is nothing to suggest that and it simply lashed out in fear. Its possible you don't live in a environment suitable for animals. However i would imagine you assessed your environment and came to the conclusion it was suitable. If the dog can settle into your home then i would give it a organisation which can re-home it to a more suitable place.

Edit: i have read you have had the dog a year. Even though you have had the dog a year its environment is on a constant spiral with the addition and removal of new and different smelling and looking people. Im guessing on a frequent bases. The environment seems alot like the shelter you got him from. There is little continuity, so the dog has not been able to grow or feel safe in its surroundings. As i say the isolation in a single room to have as its own is a good option to try.

 

[yello]

Sorry Dan, I'm not going to give a detailed response as much of what you ask I have either already answered or can be inferred.

Sam is only not controllable when he starts his barking at visitors or cars, we have to wait for him to calm down before he'll obey again . At all other times, he is controllable and follows instruction. In a calm state, he'll sit, stay, go to his bed, walk to heel, etc... but if the switch flips then we've lost him. And he has had his testicles removed, the rescue home did that before we got him.

 

[Saluki]

Hi
Just sticking my four penneth in. I work with dogs, have done since 1976 so I am giving my professional opinion. I realise that I have not met/seen this dog but it sounds like you need a behaviourist, not a trainer - residential or otherwise. More exercise sounds like it could be a goer too.

You say a Border, I am assuming Border Collie and not a Border Terrier here. They are very energetic dogs and need a lot of stimulation. One of the reasons that I wouldn't have one, I am too lazy. It sounds like a bit of stir craze to me, you said that you can't take him for a run every day. Border collies need a run every day, even when it's cold. I take my terrier for a run every day, even in 3" of snow.

A good behaviourist will come and assess, they will get you to recreate situations that set your dog off and will work from there. There a a lot of good behaviourists out there (give barkbusters a swerve though as they don't have the qualifications that I or any of my collleagues would be looking for), behaviourists are not a quick fix, nor a particularly cheap fix, but ultimately worth it.

If you think that not getting enough exercise is a problem, consider contacting Border Collie Rescue and explaining the situ to them. Tell them about the bite but also tell them that it is not possible for you to take him for a run every day. That way they get a balanced picture. I don't believe that there is such a thing as a bad dog, sometimes they are just not in the ideal situation for them.