Should magnatom sell his camera?

[John the Monkey]

But...when a driver has made a genuine mistake, and is blatantly sorry, what need is there to resort to any sort of remonstration?!

I got knocked off last year by someone who misjudged my speed as I left a roundabout. Waiting a half second would have meant the difference between me losing about 2 inches of skin off my elbow, and not being able to ride for 3 weeks, having a left arm that swelled up to about twice its size...and not.

Every time some halfwit makes a "genuine mistake" they risk that, or far, far worse. "Genuine mistakes" are also more often not paying sufficient attention (tuning the radio, wondering how long Chris Moyles is on holiday for, sending a text, not looking ahead far enough, going too fast for the conditions/road etc etc). Driving cars should be taken far more seriously by drivers than it is. "Lapses of concentration" and "genuine mistakes" should be taken far more seriously by us, because they bloody well hurt, believe me.

 

[Cab]

I got knocked off last year by someone who misjudged my speed as I left a roundabout. Waiting a half second would have meant the difference between me losing about 2 inches of skin off my elbow, and not being able to ride for 3 weeks, having a left arm that swelled up to about twice its size...and not.

Every time some halfwit makes a "genuine mistake" they risk that, or far, far worse. "Genuine mistakes" are also more often not paying sufficient attention (tuning the radio, wondering how long Chris Moyles is on holiday for, sending a text, not looking ahead far enough, going too fast for the conditions/road etc etc). Driving cars should be taken far more seriously by drivers than it is. "Lapses of concentration" and "genuine mistakes" should be taken far more seriously by us, because they bloody well hurt, believe me.

Well put. It seems ironic that in the burgeoning 'health and safety gone mad' culture we're meant to have, the one where you're meant to report accident 'near misses' at work where you could, say, have cut yourself or something similar, we completely ignore near misses on the roads every day. By not taking these close misses seriously enough we encourage people to continue to endanger us; how does that benefit anybody?

 

[magnatom]

I'm actually very serious about coming to the roundabout with me. If it's a beer you want then a beer I will buy!

If your not interested would someone else from Glasgow or nearby area be willing to come down with me one day? I like someone else to help film me and possibly follow me with the helmet camera on. I'm interesting in using this roundabout and exit as an example, and posting video etc in detail to show what happens if you take this position, that position etc.

Would someone be able to help me out with this? There would be beer involved!

 

[adunn01]

Oh, that might be one of my videos you're referring to, where some motorists on one narrow stretch of road here in Cambridge assume that because you can physically fit in a gap with oncoming traffic you can safely do so. If it is mine, you've just demonstrated to me that I needn't concern myself with what you're saying any more, because your goal here is passive cycling in response to others taking risks with our safety.

Not sure if it was your video, the one I'm talking about showed another cyclist safely passing a car in exactly the same strip of road which was apparently not wide enough for Mr "the sign says i've got priority so you must stop no matter how much space there actually is".

I'm by no means a passive cyclist, but there's a line between cycling in a manner that maintains your safety and taking unnecessary road positions just because we can. The driving standards in this country can be shocking, but too many cyclists hide behind this and use it as an excuse to 'put drivers in their place' when the drivers done very little wrong.

 

[Origamist]

Not sure if it was your video, the one I'm talking about showed another cyclist safely passing a car in exactly the same strip of road which was apparently not wide enough for Mr "the sign says i've got priority so you must stop no matter how much space there actually is".

Is this the thread you're referring to:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=15812&highlight=give

 

[magnatom]

Here are two. The first is newer. Notice the dirt on the road which is not generally used by cars.
The second is older and interestingly (I'd forgotten this) has hatchings in the area leading up to the pinch point.

Also remember that I come off the roundabout in the inside lane (closest to the roundabout). This from experience is the safest lane (despite the hatching on the roundabout). Cars will sneak out from the junction on the south (bottom) of the picture at any chance. I've been cut up here (check my videos). Therefore taking the inside lane is a must.

 

[magnatom]

The driving standards in this country can be shocking, but too many cyclists hide behind this and use it as an excuse to 'put drivers in their place' when the drivers done very little wrong.

That can certainly happen, but do you think this statement is relevant to my incident with the taxi driver, remembering that this is what all this debate started from and is about?

 

[adunn01]

That can certainly happen, but do you think this statement is relevant to my incident with the taxi driver, remembering that this is what all this debate started from and is about?

No I don't (putting aside any debate about whether the incident was avoidable by taking a different road position) - your road position was clear to the driver and he should never have overtaken you where he did. He'd have got the same from me, if not worse!

 

[adunn01]

Is this the thread you're referring to:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=15812&highlight=give

yes, the very one. I don't think that debate needs re-opening. it's pretty much summed up by the cyclist in front getting through with a clear, safe gap and the choice the cyclist makes a few seconds before the incident to go through a far smaller gap between a bus and a moving lorry.

 

[BentMikey]

If your not interested would someone else from Glasgow or nearby area be willing to come down with me one day? I like someone else to help film me and possibly follow me with the helmet camera on. I'm interesting in using this roundabout and exit as an example, and posting video etc in detail to show what happens if you take this position, that position etc.

I don't think you need to worry, we mostly have consensus here, excluding perhaps one or two raving nutters. You've certainly agreed with my views already. More importantly, your position isn't to blame for the driver's bad driving, as he should have waited.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

More importantly, your position isn't to blame for the driver's bad driving, as he should have waited.

I think most of us are agreed on this. I know I am.

 

[BentMikey]

Yup, and most likely also on the possibility of going left to secondary and slower (but not being obliged to), or of going a little faster and more right to full primary.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

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OK, obviously, living in the sticks getting off something like that fills me with dread, so initially I would be following the turqouise line, until I was spat out in the right direction.

Nice to see some humour in this thread!

 

[magnatom]

I don't think you need to worry, we mostly have consensus here, excluding perhaps one or two raving nutters. You've certainly agreed with my views already. More importantly, your position isn't to blame for the driver's bad driving, as he should have waited.

It's alright BM, I'm not worried about what people think here, or am I worried about the trolls elsewhere, however, I think it provided some significant debate and so would make an interesting case study for road position. It is something I'd like to put up on my blog showing the advantages and disadvantages of different road positions.

 

[tdr1nka]

Looking at the pics, and your needing to take a primary position coming off the roundabout to be clearly visible to cars pulling out to your left, IMO you are taking the safest line.

The crosshatched section of the road, if you follow the nearside tyre marks, automatically routes a cyclist into a secondary position with little room for a car to pass safely hence, looking back, signaling and getting into primary would make sense on approach to the pinch point.

FWIW unless you rode the exit from the roundabout to the pinch point in the gutter or on the cross hatchings you are likely to hold up traffic at some time or other in order to pass these obstacles safely.

It is the duty of any following vehicle to show patience and not theirs to decide what level of safety a cyclist should require. No matter how frustrating that may be.