should they bring in rules and laws for cyclists? (please read before shooting me down)

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davidphilips

Veteran
Location
Onabike
Fair point, i thought and some people did respond with descent weighed out responses, thinking that a debate between grown ups could occur.
other responses were not, they were more, Petty, 'ooh i can do grammar' or even like/point scoring for no reason, so it wasn't really 4 pages of 'correcting posts' as such.
thanks to posters like Chris667 for making debate/chat a grown up place.

Take some advice Andy, enough said, just have a nice day and dont even think any more about this thread never mind reading any more on it.

Its very easy to take some one up the wrong way when just reading posts and not seeing them or talking in person and if you post things like the above you can not really expect a lot of agreeable replies?
 
Well I just use Common sense its kept me out of trouble on the bike though can't the same when I was driving six days a week and a1000 miles, so I vote for common sense, " if in doubt don't"
 
Location
España
thinking that a debate between grown ups could occur.
In all fairness, if you want an adult debate then an adult OP would have helped. One with a bit of thought behind it and an awareness of the current rules/laws.

I'm pretty sure the drunk cyclist wouldn't have been put off by any laws. Enforcement, perhaps, but laws? No.

There's an interesting cultural dimension to all of this that often gets overlooked and I'm intrigued by the refusal to look elsewhere to see what works and what doesn't.

Living in NL I could count on a Police checkpoint at a busy bike route junction after the clocks changed to winter time. No lights? A fine. One each for front and back. That's separate from regular checkpoints on weekend nights in the city. NL now has laws about using phones while riding a bike.

Here in Spain I share bike paths with electric scooters (banned in NL), other bikes, skateboards, tourists and dogs. There is no friction. Not, I think, because of any laws or rules but more of a general attitude of live and let live.

Before anyone uses the argument that they have "infrastructure" I found the drivers in México to be generally extremely conscious of bikes, despite the often crazy driving and lack of infrastructure, that Honduras had probably the friendliest, most supportive people in vehicles despite zero infrastructure for bikes (and sometimes for vehicles!) and that Colombia is paradise for cycling despite almost no infrastructure outside of large cities. Interestingly, Panama, one of the wealthier countries, with wide shoulders was a hell to cycle in because of the high proportion of a**holes in vehicles.

In my opinion it's not about rules or laws but about attitudes. When someone is demonised they're not going to listen to a reasoned point or reflect on their behaviour.
When someone's point is dismissed, often abruptly, brutally or aggressively there will be no further dialogue, only a hardening of opinion.

I am frankly stunned at the lack of some kind of campaign to promote responsible cycling* and to reduce the friction between two and four wheels, especially since the Pandemic. There's a constant barrage of hate and conflict in the media, mainstream and social, that as an outsider baffles me.
I recall Ireland in the 80's where drinking and driving was seen as cool. By the mid 90's that attitude had changed severely mainly due to a string of Public Service ads backed up by stronger enforcement. My anecdotal experience was that the attitude was of more relevance than the punishment.

*Given that the OP was advocating for laws that already exist I think it would be no harm to explain to all what the rules are.
 

Willd

Veteran
Location
Rugby
I am frankly stunned at the lack of some kind of campaign to promote responsible cycling*
*Given that the OP was advocating for laws that already exist I think it would be no harm to explain to all what the rules are.
I think the issue with this would be that a lot of cyclists are using their bikes purely as a means of transport. In the past few weeks I've seen some pretty stupid riding, as a car driver:

1. Unlit bike crossing past a T junction (urban with poor visibility), only managed to avoid him as I checked right again.
2. Unlit hoodie crossing diagonally in front of me in steam of traffic, came off the opposite kerb and crossed in front of me, only missed him by luck rather than judgement.

I doubt that any kind of education would make any difference to their riding.

However, I'm not singling anyone out:
3. 2 unlit people with dark clothing on road-bikes at dusk on a straight "fast" section of the Fosse way (probably more similar to the clientele of this forum).

Would they heed any public information drive, maybe / maybe not?

I'm not sure what benefits have come from similar schemes promoting motorbike awareness. Ride like a twunt, overtake into oncoming traffic, on blind bends, ride at at least 30 mph over the speed limit then be surprised when you crash.
 
Location
España
I doubt that any kind of education would make any difference to their riding.

Would they heed any public information drive, maybe / maybe not?

There will always be outliers that are beyond reach that´s why a "promotional" campaign is probably best run in tandem with enforcement.

It´s also worth remembering that the membership of a cycling forum is but a tiny segment of the entire "people on bikes" population.

However, given that a member of a cycling forum was apparently unaware of the rules and laws sorrounding their hobby despite, I think, a recent significant change in those laws, and discussion here of them, demonstrates that a "back to basics" approach may be no harm at all to remind all road users of the rules, the risks and their responsibilities. An attempt to "reset" the debate as it were. Perhaps with people as the focus not just rules and laws.
To plot a course into the future based on the current trajectory is a pretty depressing task.

My point is that things are not like this in other places so it is possible to have a different environment. Perhaps a campaign is not the best way to go, in which case please offer some alernatives.

I'm not sure what benefits have come from similar schemes promoting motorbike awareness
Nor do I. Measurement of success can be extremely difficult to achieve. However, again, I stress the importance of looking at places where there are less issues and investigating what can be done to emulate that environment. For me, it`s absolutely not about rules and laws but attitude. And a bit of respect.
 
Living in NL I could count on a Police checkpoint at a busy bike route junction after the clocks changed to winter time. No lights? A fine. One each for front and back. That's separate from regular checkpoints on weekend nights in the city.

Fear not; the UK has police who are pro-active in this area!

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