Should truck drivers have their licences suspended for using mobile phones?‏

[Dan B]

My children will be advised to cross the road as per the advice given in the Green Cross Code, in much the same way as they will be advised to lock the door when they leave the house and to hand over their wallets and run like buggery if they should encounter a mugger. But this is nothing to do with some bullshit idea of "shared responsibility" and everything to do with self-preservation. When they're old enough to do their own risk assessment then should they decide to emulate their dad's practice of fixing the driver with a steely stare while sauntering vaguely across the road just because the said driver is treating public space like a private racetrack and should slow the fark down, their dad will be very proud of them.

 

[MontyVeda]

...

My children will be advised to cross the road as per the advice given in the Green Cross Code, in much the same way as they will be advised to lock the door when they leave the house and to hand over their wallets and run like buggery if they should encounter a mugger. But this is nothing to do with some bullshit idea of "shared responsibility" and everything to do with self-preservation. When they're old enough to do their own risk assessment then should they decide to emulate their dad's practice of fixing the driver with a steely stare while sauntering vaguely across the road just because the said driver is treating public space like a private racetrack and should slow the **** down, their dad will be very proud of them.

so you advocate the Green Cross Code... but think shared responsibility is a rubbish idea... erm... OK... if that's how you like your wires crossed, that's fine with me

 

[Dan B]

so you advocate the Green Cross Code... but think shared responsibility is a rubbish idea... erm... OK... if that's how you like your wires crossed, that's fine with me

If you got burgled and the miscreant was caught, would you accept having only 50% of your property returned on the grounds that it was partly your fault because you hadn't set the burglar alarm?

If you were carjacked by a fake squeegee merchant, would you let them have the car because it was your own fault for not having locked the doors?

If you found out after five years that your accountant had been stealing from you, would you let him have half the money because you were partly responsible because you'd employed him?

[edit: thank you anonymous mod for coalescing my three posts into one ]

 

[MontyVeda]

If you got burgled and the miscreant was caught, would you accept having only 50% of your property returned on the grounds that it was partly your fault because you hadn't set the burglar alarm?

If you were carjacked by a fake squeegee merchant, would you let them have the car because it was your own fault for not having locked the doors?

If you found out after five years that your accountant had been stealing from you, would you let him have half the money because you were partly responsible because you'd employed him?

[edit: thank you anonymous mod for coalescing my three posts into one ]

three silly scenarios that have nothing to do with what i believe shared responsibility to be.

 

[MontyVeda]

[QUOTE 3106583, member: 45"]Let's take this responsibility bit down another line....

Your son, on his way to school, is "sharing" the responsibility by waiting for a gap in the traffic. The traffic is charging down the road and there's no way he's going to get across without someone controlling the traffic. So what we're saying is that drivers dismiss their responsibility (rather than share) and only give way when they're made to. And then have the audacity to get stroppy if the person on the zebra crossing doesn't nod their thanks.

Being bullied off your route by road vehicles is not shared responsibility.[/QUOTE]
Do you drive Paul? If so... do you fit into the typical driver mindset you've depicted above?

 

[MontyVeda]

What do you think it to be?

in TMN mode.... please re-read my posts because this has gone round in circles enough.

 

[stowie]

...

so you advocate the Green Cross Code... but think shared responsibility is a rubbish idea... erm... OK... if that's how you like your wires crossed, that's fine with me

It has been said more than once, but worth repeating, getting children to learn the green cross code isn't shared responsibility. It is instilling some survival skills for the roads on children. Cyclists wearing high viz on streets isn't shared responsibility - it is a survival technique to try to get drivers to spot them. The actual responsibility for seeing them lies with the driver.

 

[stowie]

I never participate in threads I haven't read. I am asking you to define the relative levels of responsibility to be shared between the driver of a motor vehicle and a child crossing a road.

Judging by some drivers at my daughter's local primary school who speed in the 20mph street, use the zig-zags as a dropping off zone, and park on the build outs designed to make crossing children more visible, the responsibility seems to fall solely on the 5-10 yr olds as opposed to the adults supposedly qualified via license to operate the cars. Judging by the apathetic responses from the school, parking enforcement and police, the responsibility also falls to the children. Shows how messed up our priorities have become.

 

[MontyVeda]

basically this Paul...

No. It's a shared responsibility.

I was in the Tufty Club at school and learned how to take responsibility for myself when crossing the road. Yes the drivers using the road also have a responsibility to be alert and to be able to stop in time... but cannot always anticipate a child running out into the road from behind a parked car.

I was taught to be careful around ice cream vans (my responsibility). Drivers are told to be aware of kiddies running out in the road from behind a parked ice cream van (their responsibility)... so much so, the owners of the ice cram vans would have 'mind that child' painted in big letters in the back of the van.*

We share the roads, and therefore we share the responsibility to keep ourselves and others safe.

... which was in response to a claim that it's 'their responsibility'... which I took to mean 'solely the driver's responsibility not to hit a pedestrian*'.

edit.... *This is not a suggestion that a driver is not 100% responsible for not hitting peds... of course they are... but peds also have a responsibility to be aware around the roads.. hence the green cross code and all that tufty club stuff.

 

[stowie]

basically this Paul...


... which was in response to a claim that it's 'their responsibility'... which I took to mean 'solely the driver's responsibility not to hit a pedestrian*'.

edit.... *This is not a suggestion that a driver is not 100% responsible for not hitting peds... of course they are... but peds also have a responsibility to be aware around the roads.. hence the green cross code and all that tufty club stuff.

You are mixing up responsibility with survival techniques. Even if you weren't how much responsibility can you attribute to a small child as compared with a trained driver who is actually also the source of the danger?

I would say that you are arguing about the responsibilities of the people not in control of the danger whilst the real argument is how drivers can seem to abdicate responsibility almost completely for their actions?

 

[Dan B]

three silly scenarios that have nothing to do with what i believe shared responsibility to be.

OK, then. You're walking in an open public space and someone running along with a trolley full of lead ingots cannons into the side of you and knocks you over. Who's responsible?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

OK, then. You're walking in an open public space and someone running along with a trolley full of lead ingots cannons into the side of you and knocks you over. Who's responsible?

The council.

 

[Dan B]

Near enough no expecation of pedestrians ... except road workers, the drivers and passengers of broken-down vehicles, emergency services ...

 

[ufkacbln]

[QUOTE 3106583, member: 45"]Let's take this responsibility bit down another line....

Your son, on his way to school, is "sharing" the responsibility by waiting for a gap in the traffic. The traffic is charging down the road and there's no way he's going to get across without someone controlling the traffic. So what we're saying is that drivers dismiss their responsibility (rather than share) and only give way when they're made to. And then have the audacity to get stroppy if the person on the zebra crossing doesn't nod their thanks.

Being bullied off your route by road vehicles is not shared responsibility.[/QUOTE]

Which is where we come back to the crossing patrols being driven at, bullied, threatened and abused physically.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Just to add some food for thought about the use of mobiles in HGV's, see what you think of this article from today's Shropshire Star.

The people from the broken down car did everything right - got it off the carriageway, got out and stood the other side of the crash barrier. Who'd have expected to have the car chucked over the barrier at them?