Should Turbo miles for your years final total?

[SpokeyDokey]

Re: original question.

My first instinct was to say no - and I don't count mine as an aside.

But then I thought; if you 'drove' a car on a rolling road then you are putting miles (not sure if that's the right term) on the engine and drive-train so I'm now answering with a reluctant yes.

Although I don't think it would be in the spirit of things if static trainers were used on the various annual challenges on CC.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

We seem to be heading to "Are miles on a turbo equivalent to outdoor miles where you go somewhere , and if so, in what way?"

 

[JuhaL]

Maybe we don't need a thing indoor training as a ride like it sounds in this threat, i think it's better think as a simple training as it usually is. I am just too lazy separate indoor and outdoor cycling/training so i coun't them all together and it doesn't bother me.

 

[Venod]

If indoor miles are so much harder, why are they faster? Surely if you are slower outdoors for the same effort, taking into account the wind etc outdooor miles are harder?

From this statement I guess you haven't tried one of the new generation of turbo trainers.

I doubt I manage to produce the same effort outside as indoors too many variants, traffic, wind (assistance as well as head) road junctions, freewheeling, road surface, distractions.

Anyway I am starting to repeat myself, see post #11

 

[Milkfloat]

If indoor miles are so much harder, why are they faster? Surely if you are slower outdoors for the same effort, taking into account the wind etc outdooor miles are harder?

Actually when I am riding to exhaustion (a TT) my speed is pretty much the same as on Zwift when I am doing the same. A Sunday ride, even a club run is less effort than an indoor training ride done properly. I think that subconsciously outside I always hold a little in reserve to make sure I can get home, on a trainer I am already home so can give it my all safe in the knowledge that I can just stop and collapse,

 

[CXRAndy]

If indoor miles are so much harder, why are they faster? Surely if you are slower outdoors for the same effort, taking into account the wind etc outdooor miles are harder?

There are a few parameters to bear in mind. The likes of Zwift, use wind simulation in their algorithm for speed based on power, weight, and size of rider. The wind speed is set at zero. I know when on a flat smooth road with no wind I cruise along at 20-22mph. That is about the same speed I attain within Zwift with my Tacx Neo 2.

Indoor can be easier if you ride it that way. The better ride intensity comes from not needing to stop pedalling whilst cornering, stopping for junctions or any other interference on the road . I tried alot of zone 2 riding last autumn. I never thought pedalling non stop of 3.5hours could be so hard. It took a fair amount of determination physically to finish well in good form

 

[bridgy]

If indoor miles are so much harder, why are they faster? Surely if you are slower outdoors for the same effort, taking into account the wind etc outdooor miles are harder?

Personally I wouldn't say outdoor miles are always easier - depends on terrain, weather etc. But most of my miles on Zwift are racing at or near 100% effort whilst outdoor riding generally isn't. The things @Afnug has mentioned can slow you down outside such as road conditions traffic freewheeling when slowing for corners, junctions etc. don't happen on Zwift so you tend to go a bit faster overall . But the absence of those things also means you work harder because you're never having to back off or freewheel at all

 

[iandg]

Have a go on a smart turbo and see what you think, they are not for everybody, but I for one am a convert, I found the old dumb turbos a form of self inflicted torture but am happy for a couple of hours or more on the new smart one's.

Here is an old post of mine, and I did log the miles.

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lejog-on-the-turbo.215976/

Sometime, when I get the chance I would love to but at my age I won't buy one (unless something happens that I can no longer ride outdoors). I'm fortunate that I can pick and choose when I go out. If I was trying to fit in training around a full time job I think it would be different.

I know what you mean about the original turbos, I had a fan resistance model many years ago and ditched it for rollers

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If indoor miles are so much harder, why are they faster? Surely if you are slower outdoors for the same effort, taking into account the wind etc outdooor miles are harder?

Because the whole point of the turbo is to be able to ramp up the intensity in a safe environment. Think of your turbo sessions as an all out 100m sprint whilst your outdoor rides are more of a marathon. No one runs marathons at 100m pace. On flat sections of road with a good surface and no traffic or junctions my all out speed and heart rate are pretty close to my all out speed on the turbo. Of course out on real roads it rarely stays flat for long, and you often brake and freewheel. On the turbo there is no braking, no freewheeling, and no distractions. The nearest match to turbo intensity outdoors is when tackling up hills in the higher gears.

If you were measuring how difficult each is purely based on the intensity it would be the turbo (outside of proper short races and TTs). But the difficulty of outdoor rides is about much more than just intensity, and are often far longer than turbo sessions.

 

[Pumpkin the robot]

I managed to get under a 20 minute 10 a few times back in the day without doing any indoor training, so you can actually train on the roads quite effectively. I guess I am/was lucky to have all sorts of different gradients of long and short length to train on locally if I felt the need. (I do not anymore, my racing days are well in the past due to age and injuries)
I am just making a point that everyone I know that ride indoors (these are not very good physical specimans, and neither am I anymore) do not have the same pace when pushed, even if they are sat on my wheel, they cannot maintain 18+mph for an hour, where as they can easily do 20mph+ average on their indoor trainer.
Personally, I would ride outside on any given day as I am not that bothered about improving myself beyond what I am now.

 

[HLaB]

Virtual miles shouldn't be mixed with outdoors IMO. By all means count them but keep them separate.

FWIW I don't count them as I think they are fairly meaningless. For instance on my current heavily damped turbo I can sprint at 17-19mph but on my older magnetic turbo the same sprint would see me at a theoretical 56mph.
Similarly on the rollers I can fairly easily do a 20min theoretical 10 miles but my best 10miles TT on the road is only 23:57.
Indoor trainers have their purpose but don't treat them the same as outdoors.

 

[derrick]

Because the whole point of the turbo is to be able to ramp up the intensity in a safe environment. Think of your turbo sessions as an all out 100m sprint whilst your outdoor rides are more of a marathon. No one runs marathons at 100m pace. On flat sections of road with a good surface and no traffic or junctions my all out speed and heart rate are pretty close to my all out speed on the turbo. Of course out on real roads it rarely stays flat for long, and you often brake and freewheel. On the turbo there is no braking, no freewheeling, and no
movement The nearest match to turbo intensity outdoors is when tackling up hills in the higher gears.

If you were measuring how difficult each is purely based on the intensity it would be the turbo (outside of proper short races and TTs). But the difficulty of outdoor rides is about much more than just intensity, and are often far longer than turbo sessions.

Sorted that for you.

 

[CXRAndy]

Virtual miles shouldn't be mixed with outdoors IMO. By all means count them but keep them separate.

FWIW I don't count them as I think they are fairly meaningless. For instance on my current heavily damped turbo I can sprint at 17-19mph but on my older magnetic turbo the same sprint would see me at a theoretical 56mph.
Similarly on the rollers I can fairly easily do a 20min theoretical 10 miles but my best 10miles TT on the road is only 23:57.
Indoor trainers have their purpose but don't treat them the same as outdoors.

You are talking about poor accuracy devices, where I and a lot of others use quality direct drive trainers with power meters accurate to 1 or 2% offering resistance upto 20% gradients. These units when connected to the likes of Zwift provide an accurate counter of miles(km), power, speed. When I go outside and ride 40 miles over rolling terrain. I take about 2hr10, its about the same time, therefore speed for a similar terrain within Zwift. These are solo rides so no benefit from drafting. The effort and time is very close to what you'd expect for shorter rides say 20miles , just a little over the hour.

You maybe confusing the racing scene within Zwift where your average speed can be significantly higher for the same power effort, and the extremely popular big events where 5000 riders are racing together, it is a draft fest. I've experienced a similar speed boost when I did the Tour of Cambridge, where speeds were high 20's mph for very long periods especially in the early part of the event, much like Zwift.

I count all my miles as one, but Im happy to switch the count TSS instead of miles. I think I did 20,000 TSS last year. What was your TSS score?

 

[derrick]

You are talking about poor accuracy devices, where I and a lot of others use quality direct drive trainers with power meters accurate to 1 or 2% offering resistance upto 20% gradients. These units when connected to the likes of Zwift provide an accurate counter of miles(km), power, speed. When I go outside and ride 40 miles over rolling terrain. I take about 2hr10, its about the same time, therefore speed for a similar terrain within Zwift. These are solo rides so no benefit from drafting. The effort and time is very close to what you'd expect for shorter rides say 20miles , just a little over the hour.

You maybe confusing the racing scene within Zwift where your average speed can be significantly higher for the same power effort, and the extremely popular big events where 5000 riders are racing together, it is a draft fest. I've experienced a similar speed boost when I did the Tour of Cambridge, where speeds were high 20's mph for very long periods especially in the early part of the event, much like Zwift.

I count all my miles as one, but Im happy to switch the count TSS instead of miles. I think I did 20,000 TSS last year. What was your TSS score?

What is TSS?

 

[fossyant]

What is TSS?

He's blinding you with science !

We'll be talking about FTP next ! Not that much of it makes a difference, only to yourself, if you can be bothered.