Simon Cowell

[Drago]

But in the US...the country our esteemed leader is trying to do a trade deal with, they can have a 20mph speed limit without having to buy another speed pedelec, but they still have to pedal to get that speed

It's irrelevant what they do in the US because we don't live there.

 

[Pale Rider]

There's a lot of bikes out there that simply sense the crank is moving, that's enough to deliver full power with about 1watt from the rider.

That is true, but full power from a road legal motor will not propel the rider to 20mph on its own.

I've ridden a torque sensing Bosch speed pedelec.

On the flat, it required quite a bit of effort from me to reach 20mph and above.

I couldn't get it to 28mph to reach the cut out, but I suspect a stronger and lighter ride could.

 

[cyberknight]

I don't see it in terms of the max assisted speed being raised, more like the minimum speed being raised. Yes the responsible will be responsible, naturally, but there'll be quite a few that will just hoon around at a minimum speed of 20mph, unencumbered by physical inability.

15.5mph is fine, I'd go further and say that only torque sensing bikes should be allowed 🤷‍♂️ There's a lot of bikes out there that simply sense the crank is moving, that's enough to deliver full power with about 1watt from the rider.

at work theirs a modded e bike , kit job with a feck off motor and battery pack , definety overpowered that has had the chain removed so motive power from the rider at all

 

[glasgowcyclist]

i hope this helps and jogs your memory

View attachment 541268

Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of low speed electric bicycles in the US.

This is a direct quote from federal law which states:

"Low-speed electric bicycles
(a) Construction
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 2052(a)(1) 1 of this title and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Definition
For the purpose of this section, the term "low-speed electric bicycle" means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph." (My bold)

This class of e-bike (in the US) may have a top speed of less than 20mph when powered by the electric motor alone. No pedalling input is required so this is an entirely different beast from the UK e-bike and therefor not really a valid comparison.

 

[ColinJ]

UK Bicycle Association statement HERE.

...
It is reported that the vehicle he was riding when the accident occurred was a “Swind EB-01”, with 60 mph top speed and with a 15 kW (20 horsepower) motor.

This vehicle has, misleadingly in our opinion, been described as an “electric bike” or “e-bike”. In the UK, this vehicle would in fact be classed as an electric motorbike, requiring full type approval, registration, tax, licence, insurance and a motorbike helmet to be worn.
...

 

[CXRAndy]

Do you want the UK limit raised or not then?

Personally, yes

 

[jowwy]

It's irrelevant what they do in the US because we don't live there.

We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......

 

[jowwy]

Thanks for the Google screenshot. If you're pointing me towards the article on electricbikereport.com, I'd point out that the writer has not accurately reported the legal position of low speed electric bicycles in the US.

This is a direct quote from federal law which states:

"Low-speed electric bicycles
(a) Construction
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning of section 2052(a)(1) 1 of this title and shall be subject to the Commission regulations published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Definition
For the purpose of this section, the term "low-speed electric bicycle" means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph." (My bold)

This class of e-bike (in the US) may have a top speed of less than 20mph when powered by the electric motor alone. No pedalling input is required so this is an entirely different beast from the UK e-bike and therefor not really a valid comparison.

So why does it need fully operable pedals??? Also read this for a class 1 ebike in california, which if my geography serves me correctly is in america

 

[Drago]

We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......

But we have never been part of the US, so that is irrelevant too.

 

[jowwy]

But we have never been part of the US, so that is irrelevant too.

But they want a trade deal with the US, which opens up the possibility of adopting some of their laws. If we adopt their ebike laws, then software updates can easily be adapted to take the new law.....

 

[raleighnut]

We ain’t part of The European union any more either, but we are still keeping some of their laws that passed when we was.......

Mainly because we had a hand in drafting most of em and imposing them on the other European countries, even 'Article 50' was written by a Brit.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

So why does it need fully operable pedals??? Also read this for a class 1 ebike in california, which if my geography serves me correctly is in america

It needs pedals to avoid being classified in California as a motor vehicle, which would bring with it the requirement for registration, insurance etc.

Yes, California is in America but it’s only one of 50 states, all with their own state laws on road vehicle use. Kentucky, for example, classes e-bikes as mopeds with riders needing motorcycle helmets. It’s one of a dozen states which require e-bike riders to have a driving licence too. And there are a dozen states which have no classification system at all for e-bikes! So be careful stating that the 20mph pedal assisted cut-off is US-wide or suggesting that we can adopt their laws when they don’t even agree among themselves what laws to apply.

 

[jowwy]

It needs pedals to avoid being classified in California as a motor vehicle, which would bring with it the requirement for registration, insurance etc.

Yes, California is in America but it’s only one of 50 states, all with their own state laws on road vehicle use. Kentucky, for example, classes e-bikes as mopeds with riders needing motorcycle helmets. It’s one of a dozen states which require e-bike riders to have a driving licence too. And there are a dozen states which have no classification system at all for e-bikes! So be careful stating that the 20mph pedal assisted cut-off is US-wide or suggesting that we can adopt their laws when they don’t even agree among themselves what laws to apply.

Were did I say it was US wide.....I said in America which is a huge place with lots of different laws, don’t quote something I never said, just to try and prove a point on a situation that I just proved uncategorically that your wrong in.....Yet again another member that thinks only his opinion counts and the rest must fall in line with his views

 

[jowwy]

Mainly because we had a hand in drafting most of em and imposing them on the other European countries, even 'Article 50' was written by a Brit.

Again irrelevant.......no matter who drafted, we no longer need to abide by European laws, so why can’t we try and change some to better suit people’s needs in the UK and why not use another countries state law to try and do that.

 

[dodgy]

But they want a trade deal with the US, which opens up the possibility of adopting some of their laws.

I don't believe there is a precedent for adopting the laws of a country we're trading with. The EU is different of course, being part of a mutually beneficial club essentially.