Smart energy meters, should I/shouldn't I?

[Wobblers]

There are some people on Cyclechat who are more interested in picking an argument than in ferreting out the points of common understanding. I knew you were not one of those; I would have been mortified if you had thought I was one such; and I think we have just demonstrated how seeming initial disagreements often disguise a much larger measure of agreement once the parameters of the debate are better understood. Multiple Big Hugs all round; the next time we're on a Friday together I'm buying you a drink; and the essay I still need to write is why Smart Meters, while not necessary for a basic Smart Grid, are necessary for the fully developed Smart Grid that our society needs if we are to avoid making climate change even worse than it's already going to be.

I have to confess that I took a cynical view of your post - which says nothing at all complimentary about me. The next FNR it'll be me buying the drinks, as recompense. (I suspect some discourse on conquering the world with solar power and a global HVDC grid may be involved...)

You suggest two scenarios in your smart meter essay that I hadn't considered. I imagine that appliances will need to have some electronics to be able to listetn to the smart grid. The protocol used to communicate between grid and appliance will have to be simple (given that they will be sold into many different countries), and secure. That suggests that best place for the more complex communications that your changing weather secnario needs are best placed in the smart meter. It might be possible to put it on one of the substation equipment racks - your other sceanrio of the 200 electric cars on the 150 car capacity supply needs that, but I suspect that smart meters are the most logical place.

 

[swansonj]

I have to confess that I took a cynical view of your post - which says nothing at all complimentary about me. The next FNR it'll be me buying the drinks, as recompense. (I suspect some discourse on conquering the world with solar power and a global HVDC grid may be involved...)

You suggest two scenarios in your smart meter essay that I hadn't considered. I imagine that appliances will need to have some electronics to be able to listetn to the smart grid. The protocol used to communicate between grid and appliance will have to be simple (given that they will be sold into many different countries), and secure. That suggests that best place for the more complex communications that your changing weather secnario needs are best placed in the smart meter. It might be possible to put it on one of the substation equipment racks - your other sceanrio of the 200 electric cars on the 150 car capacity supply needs that, but I suspect that smart meters are the most logical place.

I think the communication has to happen via a smart meter for business as well as engineering reasons. @Drago, bless him, has illustrated that people aren't going to contribute control of their electricity use for the greater good just out of the goodness of their hearts. The assumption is that people will be offered tariffs that make it attractive for them to do so - tariffs mediated through their meter.

 

[swansonj]

Absolutely, that's why everyone should have their own micro generation systems, then everyone can decrease reliance on the national grid.

Everyone, that is, who owns a house with a sufficiently large south facing roof, or lives in a sufficiently windy unobstructed location, or has a river running through their grounds, or has enough land for a ground source heat pump. I'm with you that everyone should do what they can - but micro generation ain't anything like a full solution for societies where people live in cities.

 

[Drago]

Absolutely, it certainly isn't.

However, I installed my system to benefit me, not to prop up an ailing National Grid at peak times.

 

[swansonj]

I want to use the power I've generated when it suits me to do so. That's the raison d'être of my solar, to be able to spank the power hungry appliances during the day pretty much for free.

Absolutely, it certainly isn't.

However, I installed my system to benefit me, not to prop up an ailing National Grid at peak times.

See, that's the reason why I end up liking your posts so often. Like all right-wingers, you are selfish. But there's a charming transparency and lack of pretence about your selfishness....

 

[Milkfloat]

See, that's the reason why I end up liking your posts so often. Like all right-wingers, you are selfish. But there's a charming transparency and lack of pretence about your selfishness....

But you did not like his post!

 

[Dan B]

But you did not like his post!

Swansonj reads cyclechat for his own benefit, not to prop up Drago's ailing ego

 

[Drago]

The big picture is that the national grid didn't pay the 7 grand for my solar installation, so I'll use it to my benefit first, and theirs only when convenient to me.

Its the same with the rest of my possessions, and yours too Adrian. I paid for them, the first dibs in any benefit gained from them is mine.

If people weren't so rapaciously rampant with their energy consumption then it wouldn't be down to micro generators like me to try and meet demand. The clearest view of the big picture is one where the detractors aren't themselves wasting energy on frivolous things, such as powering internet connections to tell me to think big picture.

 

[Milkfloat]

Swansonj reads cyclechat for his own benefit, not to prop up Drago's ailing ego

If only he was not so selfish and thought about the greater good of keeping @Drago happy and more importantly safely in his box

 

[Drago]

I am happy. Its an overcast day and my solar is still generating 1.4 kW. I'm using a tiny bit to work the internet, and the rest is going to the National Grid, and in 3 months I'll get a fat cheque for it. The cheque pretty much covers my electricity bill, so financially I'm self sufficient for electricity. Happy as Larry.

 

[albion]

Britain is pioneering Smart meters, paid for out of our bills.
However I read that many of the first generation are quite bad at calculation power flow, but they got round that by almost always overcalculating rather than undercalculating. That would mean smart users are subsidising the none smart users!

And it seems much of the first generation meter is incapable of switching supplier.
So if you want a cheap deal the smart meter turns out to be a lemon.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/six-reasons-say-no-smart-meter/

By the third generaton will we get smart grid capability?

 

[albion]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/04/smart_meters_more_expensive_fewer_savings/

Cost is now at £420 per meter, much of that being advertising. Saves a grand sum of £11 per year, that is assuming they have improved their dire accuracy by now.

 

[classic33]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/04/smart_meters_more_expensive_fewer_savings/

Cost is now at £420 per meter, much of that being advertising. Saves a grand sum of £11 per year, that is assuming they have improved their dire accuracy by now.

They've never been considered as an item that'll save money for the consumer though. Even the advertising is changing to reflect that.

 

[albion]

https://skintdad.co.uk/smart-meters-save-money/

This looks advertising. And 'People using smart meters are more confident in the accuracy of their bills (81 per cent) when compared to those with traditional meter'.

Personally, I'd like the analogue meter also left in there to get a good second opinion on the smart one.

 

[classic33]

https://skintdad.co.uk/smart-meters-save-money/

This looks advertising. And 'People using smart meters are more confident in the accuracy of their bills (81 per cent) when compared to those with traditional meter'.

Personally, I'd like the analogue meter also left in there to get a good second opinion on the smart one.

The remaining 19% being on Pre-paid meters?