Solar Production Thread
- Thread starter jowwy
- Start date
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PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
At 68 I don't really have the time to wait 11 years and it's conceivable I will need the capital in the future. Where else would I invest? I'd add it to my investments with Prudential which have continued to grow throughout Covid and the current economic crisis.
I can see why generating one's own electricity for an EV is very attractive but does it really save hundreds per month? The petrol cost for +/- 1400 miles per month is +/- £200. To save that your electricity must be absolutely free.
I am genuinely interested in this and not trying to be clever. I do though find it difficult to grasp how the finances stack up. We recently replaced wife's petrol Fiat 500 with another. The EV equivalent 500 was £30000, we paid £8300 for her new car.
To convince society to move to green solutions these should make financial sense. If we'd purchased an EV and installed solar our capital outlay would be +/- £40k. To my mind that doesn't stack up financially.
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PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
It's heartening to read people are making solar power investment for ethical rather than financial reasons. I applaud you all for this.
I do believe though, as above, until the cost of green solutions become affordable for the majority we will make very little progress. That is the challenge for all first world governments.
I do believe though, as above, until the cost of green solutions become affordable for the majority we will make very little progress. That is the challenge for all first world governments.
cougie uk
Guru
Well the average life expectancy in the UK is over 80 years old - and it's probably higher than that for cyclists - so chances are you'd get the cash back !
That is some good MPG you're getting there ? Over 50 mpg - very efficient car. OK my EV was twice as expensive as your Fiat - but it's bigger and about the same size as the SUV it replaced.
We charge our EV cheap rate at night as we don't yet have our solar - and it's cost us £222 for the year. For about 13,000 miles. No road tax and cheaper servicing and it's a dream to drive. One foot driving and all of the safety mod cons.
The solar will definitely reduce our monthly electricity bills - the money could be invested - but I doubt you could double your 10k in ten years - that's about the level you'd need to see the return at ? And investments can go up and down.
And it's not just about the cost - do you have any children or grandchildren ? Do you care about the world you're leaving for them ?
"Sure little grandkid - I DO care about your future - but it has to make financial sense to me..."
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
I don't think this comment was necessary
Agree….its supposed to be a thread about the solar production of our systems
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Our 2007 Toyota Rav4 does more than 50mpg, so it's not a very high smaller cars these days are doing over 70mpg, also which EV SUV have you bought for under £17K?
I think he may be talking about the 30k EV fiat……..but lets try and get the thread back on track with Solar PV production
Hows the weather with you today and is production likely to happen???? Its pretty wet and grey here and only getting around 100watts at the moment.
PaulSB
Squire
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
Thank you for the information, it makes very clear how such investment can and does make sense.
The two sentences I have highlighted are unnecessary and harsh. Yes, I care about the world we will leave behind. In my household we do all we can to live a green life but both our financial and housing situation limit this. The £40k I mentioned would come from savings set aside for later life. Should my wife pre-decease me the loss of her pension would leave me reliant on those savings. If I had put this capital into solar panels and an EV it's likely I would become financially reliant on the state.
There is more to this discussion than people appreciate. Your post shows households able to afford a £60k vehicle have their motoring costs effectively subsidised by others, in reality by people who cannot even afford their own energy costs. Possibly there are households more in need of cheap, almost free energy.
To me this is unfair, underlining the deep inequalities which exist in our society. To achieve a greener society we need to enable everyone to contribute. Possibly instead of a 100% subsidy on fuel costs for those able to spend £60k on a vehicle it would be better to tax the subsidy in some way to contribute say 50% of the savings to supporting others who cannot do the same? Should green credentials include using savings in "the hundreds each month" as a contribution towards saving the planet?
Another thought. My wife's car was 12 years old when we replaced it, mine is 7. I trust you will be keeping your EV for 12 years. Our UK habit of changing vehicles every three years is hardly green.
I'm going to move to solar and suggest another view. I'm fortunate to live in a conservation area subject to an Article 4 Direction. Solar is out of reach as the A4D means solar panels cannot be installed on the property. Possibly I could get planning for an installation on my allotment 500 meters from the house. At what cost? 500 metres of trenching through the garden? I am not allowed by law to make changes to the external appearance of the house. Replacement windows and doors have to be handmade at a cost of £1000 each. An investment we recently made. I'm not complaining but there are no grants, subsidies etc. available to help this effort to reduce energy use.
Perhaps sufficient reward for a solar installation should be free or low cost energy? Should income from spare capacity be taxed with that revenue invested in helping lower income families enjoy a greener or more sustainable life? We've been told these investments are largely for ethical reasons. Perhaps those ethics need to stretch further?
It's not as simple as "Sure little grandkid - I DO care about your future - but it has to make financial sense to me..."
Things are rarely as simple as they might appear.
I apologise for what I'm sure will be viewed as an off topic post. It will probably be removed but given the question asked of me I feel its worth asking just how green and ethical are these investments? I'd argue as a society we are failing miserably in our efforts to save the planet.
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So you want individuals who invest in solar energy for their properties, to be taxed for excess solar sold back to the grid and taxed for any grid energy they used from their supplier. Surely it should be the companies making excess profits from energy sales, that should be taxed more and put towards more green investment, rather than individuals doing what they think is ethical………talk about having your cake and eating it.
So i got taxed on…
installation
Production excess sold
Import tax from the grid
Yet my Excess is sold at 15p and i have to import it at 33p + vat……so i have to sell 2.5kwh of excess just to cover 1kwh of import. Energy companies making even more money.
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D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
The sun has just got out, I've jumped from 70W-120W of this morning to 1.43kW but I can't see it lasting very long, 1.07kW is going into the battery but it's only at 14% so I can't see that getting above 30% today, the wife's just gone in the shower so when she gets out that 30 minutes of hair drier at 2000w to look forward to. She did ask yesterday if she ought to wait until the washing machine had finished before putting on the tumble drier, so I thought I was getting through, until she waited until the sun went down before putting on the drier, the oven & 2 hobs 
I know we had to have food to eat.
I know we had to have food to eat.The sun has just got out, I've jumped from 70W-120W of this morning to 1.43kW but I can't see it lasting very long, 1.07kW is going into the battery but it's only at 14% so I can't see that getting above 30% today, the wife's just gone in the shower so when she gets out that 30 minutes of hair drier at 2000w to look forward to. She did ask yesterday if she ought to wait until the washing machine had finished before putting on the tumble drier, so I thought I was getting through, until she waited until the sun went down before putting on the drier, the oven & 2 hobs
It's tricky trying to find the right balance with changeable weather.
It's been an ok day today, currently at 10kWh and the battery is 75%. It's taken a bit of a bashing with the kettle since I got back from a ride.
we had some sun! The panels powered the house and charged the battery by early afternoon. Plugged in the car for overflow charging and that’s got about 3kwh worth of charge in just over an hour, before the rain started. Sunny again now, ish, and the dishwasher is on.
I get where Mrs @Phaeton is coming from - it’s a real mental shift. I’m going to have to get better organised at meal planning and cooking earlier in the day. I’ll be doing a lot more with the slow cooker. Sunshine always used to trigger the laundry on the line reflex in me, now I have to think about is the battery charged and can I also run the washing machine or dishwasher or charge the car or do some cooking without dipping into the grid…. I realised last night that it makes more sense to charge phones, tablets etc during the day now to mop up some of the overflow.
@PaulSB I wish there was broader support to help everyone. Insulating homes that need it would seem to be a relatively quick win. My cookie-cutter new build home in a nice but relatively unremarkable area means that there were no planning barriers to solar, whereas friends in more scenic villages with older less well insulated homes have far fewer options available to them. I know I can’t fix the crisis on my own, and agree that as a species we’re not doing much either. I did want to make the changes that seemed sensible for us though and that were sensible within our economic remit. A year ago we were running a 13 year old diesel and a very uneconomic petrol hottish hatch on pcp. Those have now been replaced with a petrol hybrid and a leased EV (and a lot more walking and cycling). The plan is to go to one car at the end of the 4 year lease though we don’t yet know whether that will be the hybrid or another EV. Our panels have only been in for a few days but so far so good. They are working for us, let’s see what happens in winter. Solar isn’t a universal solution on its own, any more than EVs are a silver bullet for ICE issues. We need other options that are’t restricted to home-owners with cash or to those with a certain kind of house/drive/roof/postcode.
Hand on heart, ethics were a part of our decision but not all of it - probably more so with the cars as the diesel needed replacing anyway, the vw was nearing the end of its contract and doing far fewer miles than pre covid and our town has regular air quality issues. An EV gives us a car that can (probably) still be fuelled even when all the local fuel stations temporarily run dry. With the panels and battery we wanted to stabilise our electricity costs and reduce dependency on the grid.
Anyway, apologies to @jowwy for the lengthy digression. Back to numbers now.
I get where Mrs @Phaeton is coming from - it’s a real mental shift. I’m going to have to get better organised at meal planning and cooking earlier in the day. I’ll be doing a lot more with the slow cooker. Sunshine always used to trigger the laundry on the line reflex in me, now I have to think about is the battery charged and can I also run the washing machine or dishwasher or charge the car or do some cooking without dipping into the grid…. I realised last night that it makes more sense to charge phones, tablets etc during the day now to mop up some of the overflow.
@PaulSB I wish there was broader support to help everyone. Insulating homes that need it would seem to be a relatively quick win. My cookie-cutter new build home in a nice but relatively unremarkable area means that there were no planning barriers to solar, whereas friends in more scenic villages with older less well insulated homes have far fewer options available to them. I know I can’t fix the crisis on my own, and agree that as a species we’re not doing much either. I did want to make the changes that seemed sensible for us though and that were sensible within our economic remit. A year ago we were running a 13 year old diesel and a very uneconomic petrol hottish hatch on pcp. Those have now been replaced with a petrol hybrid and a leased EV (and a lot more walking and cycling). The plan is to go to one car at the end of the 4 year lease though we don’t yet know whether that will be the hybrid or another EV. Our panels have only been in for a few days but so far so good. They are working for us, let’s see what happens in winter. Solar isn’t a universal solution on its own, any more than EVs are a silver bullet for ICE issues. We need other options that are’t restricted to home-owners with cash or to those with a certain kind of house/drive/roof/postcode.
Hand on heart, ethics were a part of our decision but not all of it - probably more so with the cars as the diesel needed replacing anyway, the vw was nearing the end of its contract and doing far fewer miles than pre covid and our town has regular air quality issues. An EV gives us a car that can (probably) still be fuelled even when all the local fuel stations temporarily run dry. With the panels and battery we wanted to stabilise our electricity costs and reduce dependency on the grid.
Anyway, apologies to @jowwy for the lengthy digression. Back to numbers now.
