Solar Production Thread

[jowwy]

Worsed day since installation after yesterdays best day lol

Just 0.8kwh production

 

[Hebe]

We had a surprisingly sunny day, and started it with a half full battery, which helped. Working out how to charge the car on excess solar was a highlight.

 

[classic33]

We had a surprisingly sunny day, and started it with a half full battery, which helped. Working out how to charge the car on excess solar was a highlight.

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You're sure the battery wasn't half empty?

 

[cougie uk]

I remember we had British Gas round to insulate our loft and cavity wall insulation a few years ago. I know we didn't pay.

Was that not some national initiative or something?

 

[Deleted member 26715]

You're sure the battery wasn't half empty?

No he has an optimistic battery, ours on the other hand

 

[Hebe]

I remember we had British Gas round to insulate our loft and cavity wall insulation a few years ago. I know we didn't pay.

Was that not some national initiative or something?

I don't know - I think provision has been patchy and dependent on what individual councils and suppliers decided to offer. Some were grants towards the costs rather than covering the whole amount. I looked into it when I had my first mortgage in the early 90s and just didn't have the cash to spare, even with the grant.

 

[Hebe]

No he has an optimistic battery, ours on the other hand

I'm a battery half-full kind of woman . If its charging it's half-full, if it's discharging it's half-empty.

 

[Alex321]

Thank you for the information, it makes very clear how such investment can and does make sense.

The two sentences I have highlighted are unnecessary and harsh. Yes, I care about the world we will leave behind. In my household we do all we can to live a green life but both our financial and housing situation limit this. The £40k I mentioned would come from savings set aside for later life. Should my wife pre-decease me the loss of her pension would leave me reliant on those savings. If I had put this capital into solar panels and an EV it's likely I would become financially reliant on the state.

There is more to this discussion than people appreciate. Your post shows households able to afford a £60k vehicle have their motoring costs effectively subsidised by others, in reality by people who cannot even afford their own energy costs. Possibly there are households more in need of cheap, almost free energy.

This is something I've said before, in another thread. Solar (And even EVs, though les so) is something which will save you money in the long term, but in order to save that money, you have to have the capital (or ability to get and pay for a loan) to fund it in the first place.

So only the reasonably well off are able to take advantage of the saving. Like quite a lot of things.

To me this is unfair, underlining the deep inequalities which exist in our society. To achieve a greener society we need to enable everyone to contribute. Possibly instead of a 100% subsidy on fuel costs for those able to spend £60k on a vehicle it would be better to tax the subsidy in some way to contribute say 50% of the savings to supporting others who cannot do the same? Should green credentials include using savings in "the hundreds each month" as a contribution towards saving the planet?

There is no "100% subsidy" on EV fuel costs. I don't know where you get that from.

Anybody with an EV who doesn't have solar with sufficient generating capacity will pay for the electricity they use to charge it (Some Tesla opwners got "free" charging included as part of the exorbitant cost of purchase, but that is not really subidised)

Another thought. My wife's car was 12 years old when we replaced it, mine is 7. I trust you will be keeping your EV for 12 years. Our UK habit of changing vehicles every three years is hardly green.

Do we really have such a habit? I now that company cars and other fleet vehicles tend to be sold off at that sort of age, but not usually scrapped, they go into the 2nd hand car market.

I think most private buyers buy 2nd hand to start with, and tend to keep them for more than 3 years then. I know we do, and I don't believe we are atypical in that respect.

According to this page, the average age of cars on the road is 8.6 years, with 20% being 13 years or older.

I'm going to move to solar and suggest another view. I'm fortunate to live in a conservation area subject to an Article 4 Direction. Solar is out of reach as the A4D means solar panels cannot be installed on the property. Possibly I could get planning for an installation on my allotment 500 meters from the house. At what cost? 500 metres of trenching through the garden? I am not allowed by law to make changes to the external appearance of the house. Replacement windows and doors have to be handmade at a cost of £1000 each. An investment we recently made. I'm not complaining but there are no grants, subsidies etc. available to help this effort to reduce energy use.

That sucks, although I suppose to an extent it comes with where you choose to live.

Perhaps sufficient reward for a solar installation should be free or low cost energy? Should income from spare capacity be taxed with that revenue invested in helping lower income families enjoy a greener or more sustainable life? We've been told these investments are largely for ethical reasons. Perhaps those ethics need to stretch further?

No.

These investments need to be encouraged, and that would discourage them. While many of us are making them as much for ethical reasons as for the financial reasons, fewer would do so if they couldn't see any real benefit to themselves.

Having said which, If you install solar expecting it to generate significantly more than you use, the sale of surplus energy is theoretically subject to income tax.
Income Tax (Trading and other income) Act 2005
"782ADomestic microgeneration
(1)No liability to income tax arises in respect of income arising to an individual from the sale of electricity generated by a microgeneration system if—

(a)the system is installed at or near domestic premises occupied by the individual, and

(b)the individual intends that the amount of electricity generated by it will not significantly exceed the amount of electricity consumed in those premises.

(2)In subsection (1)—

• “domestic premises” means premises used wholly or mainly as a separate private dwelling, and
• [F1“microgeneration system” has the same meaning as in section 263AZA of the Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992.]"

It's not as simple as "Sure little grandkid - I DO care about your future - but it has to make financial sense to me..."

Things are rarely as simple as they might appear.

I apologise for what I'm sure will be viewed as an off topic post. It will probably be removed but given the question asked of me I feel its worth asking just how green and ethical are these investments? I'd argue as a society we are failing miserably in our efforts to save the planet.

Well anything which discourages the take up of renewable energy can only make that worse.

 

[Beebo]

How much does a domestic system cost? My roof faces WSW - ENE.
I feel that my cash in the bank would be better spent on solar panels.
How invasive is it. Do they have to drill lots of holes?

 

[Alex321]

How much does a domestic system cost?

Varies a lot. It depends on how big a system you get, whether you want a battery as well, how easy the access is for installation, and which installer you use (you can't legally do it yourself, because only registered installers can get the MCS certificate).

It can be anything from about £5,000 up to £20,000 or more. Ours was 20,000, but ours is a much larger installation than the average domestic one, at 10.14kW, and a 16kWh battery.

My roof faces WSW - ENE.

Panels would need to go on the WSW face I think, you won't get much generation from ENE

I feel that my cash in the bank would be better spent on solar panels.
How invasive is it. Do they have to drill lots of holes?

Not really invasive at all, though that will depend to an extent on where you want the inverter (and battery if you have one).

 

[Hebe]

How much does a domestic system cost? My roof faces WSW - ENE.
I feel that my cash in the bank would be better spent on solar panels.
How invasive is it. Do they have to drill lots of holes?

We have a SolarEdge system comprising 14 x 395Wp panels on a south facing roof, a 9.7kwh battery, and a combined inverter/EV charger. Quote was for £14.5k for slightly lower rated panels and no ev charger but the supply chain dictated either changes or a much longer wait. Quote included scaffolding. We have the battery and inverter on the side of the house so there's a bit less space on the drive, and cabling on the wall too. The panels went up in a day, the electrics took a bit longer but it was surprisingly low stress compared to all the delays with supply.

 

[jowwy]

How much does a domestic system cost? My roof faces WSW - ENE.
I feel that my cash in the bank would be better spent on solar panels.
How invasive is it. Do they have to drill lots of holes?

Mine was circa 5k…….took 2 guys one day to fit it all.

Roof tiles slid back and racking added to roof, tiles slid back forward in place to hide said brackets in the roof joists. As for inside, inverter is in the attack and cable run through trunking up gable end of property, all neat and tidy job indeed.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

@Moderators Don't want to stop the thread as it's all very interesting but if one of you has a spare 10 minutes, yeah I know who has spare time these days, but could you highlight the OT comments & move them over to https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/solar-panels….283863 which would suit them better, then we can have a pre & post thread. Thanks, oh you can then delete this post then.

 

[jowwy]

Just the 3kwh today……was on/off rain all morning

 

[Hebe]

Here’s today’s. Not as high as yesterday but consumption down a bit too. We’ll burn though a bit more battery this evening what with cooking and Strictly. Still, two loads of washing done and the battery recharged fully.