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'Speeding' on a bike

Discussion in 'CycleChat Cafe' started by gambatte, 6 Feb 2008.

  1. gambatte

    gambatte Middle of the pack...

    Location:
    S Yorks
    Looking for a bit of help. Having a ‘discussion’ with a guy at work, who won’t have it that theres no specific offence of ‘speeding’ related to bikes.

    Told him about the ‘pedalling furiously’ thing – won’t have it.

    Told him, ‘find me ONE successful prosecution, and I’ll admit you’re right’

    Anyone else got any more evidence I can throw at him (Note: bricks aren’t evidence, although they have been considered)
     
  2. Maz

    Maz Guru

    If I understand you correctly, I think he's right. Speeding offences only apply to motorised vehicles, so bikes (bicycles) are excluded from that.
     
  3. gambatte

    gambatte Middle of the pack...

    Location:
    S Yorks
    Thanks Maz, that means you agree with me. No 'speeding' for bikes, only for motorised vehicles.

    Can't seem to find any decent references to shut him up with tho'
     
  4. Maz

    Maz Guru

    Yes, sorry, I wasn't sure what your stance was and what was that of the other chap. I understand it now.
     
  5. Taken from the Highway Code section for cyclists -

    69

    You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.

    [Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)]


    Speed limit signs are traffic signs therefore should be obeyed. However, correct me if I'm wrong, in practise I doubt whether a bicycle speed limit is generally enforced.
     
  6. gambatte

    gambatte Middle of the pack...

    Location:
    S Yorks
    Just found one ref:
    "On the other hand, you cannot be charged with speeding on a bike. There is
    no such offence. (This on the authority of His Honour Patrick Halnan, no
    less, in a letter to The Times in Nov 1997.) You can be done for cycling
    "dangerously", "carelessly and inconsiderately" or "furiously"; but if
    you're safe, careful and considerate, there's nothing to stop you zonking
    along at 45 in a 30 limit."
     
  7. gambatte

    gambatte Middle of the pack...

    Location:
    S Yorks
    Maybe its good practice to obey the limits. But I'm actually concerned with the legality of it. Another ref I've just found:

    The Road Traffic Act 1988 says: "A failure on the part of a person to observe any provision of The Highway Code shall not of itself render that person to criminal proceedings of any kind"
     
  8. I think this could be a legal minefield:ohmy::ohmy:;)
     
  9. DP

    DP Chasse patate

    Location:
    Netherlands
  10. wafflycat

    wafflycat New Member

    Location:
    middle of Norfolk
    Here's the correction: the laws you refer to refer specifically to *motorised* vehicles. What you have to adhere to are the signs & signals which are applicable to the cyclist. Or would you, when cycling, obey a sign that said all motorised vehicles must be driven over this here cliff... :smile:

    Here's the RTA 1988 s36 for you... the clue is in the title

    "DRIVERS TO COMPLY WITH TRAFFIC SIGNS. RTA 1988

    36.—(1) Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

    (a) of the prescribed size, colour and type, or
    (:biggrin: of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the [1984 c. 27.] Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,
    has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

    (2) A traffic sign shall not be treated for the purposes of this section as having been lawfully placed unless either—

    (a) the indication given by the sign is an indication of a statutory prohibition, restriction or requirement, or
    (:biggrin: it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to signs of a type of which the sign is one;
    and, where the indication mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection is of the general nature only of the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates, a person shall not be convicted of failure to comply with the indication unless he has failed to comply with the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates.

    (3) For the purposes of this section a traffic sign placed on or near a road shall be deemed—

    (a) to be of the prescribed size, colour and type, or of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, and
    (B) (subject to subsection (2) above) to have been lawfully so placed,
    unless the contrary is proved.

    (4) Where a traffic survey of any description is being carried out on or in the vicinity of a road, this section applies to a traffic sign by which a direction is given—

    (a) to stop a vehicle,
    (B) to make it proceed in, or keep to, a particular line of traffic, or
    (c) to proceed to a particular point on or near the road on which the vehicle is being driven or propelled,
    being a direction given for the purposes of the survey (but not a direction requiring any person to provide any information for the purposes of the survey).

    (5) Regulations made by the Secretary of State for Transport, the Secretary of State for Wales and the Secretary of State for Scotland acting jointly may specify any traffic sign for the purposes of column 5 of the entry in Schedule 2 to the [
    1988 c. 53.] Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 relating to offences under this section (offences committed by failing to comply with certain signs involve discretionary disqualification)."

    As regards speed limits, without having to dig up the actual regs from my hard drive again, here's copy of a letter to The Times by a judge.

    "Letter to The Times, 7/11/97: From His Honour Patrick Halnan Sir, I write as one who frequently cycled to court. My fellow cyclists may like to know that as long as they do not cycle "dangerously", "furiously", "carelessly" or "without reasonable consideration" they can cycle as fast as they like. The offence of "speeding" can, in law, only be committed by drivers of motor vehicles. I remain Sir, a happy cyclist. Yours truly, PATRICK HALNAN, Cambridge. November 5. "

    There are specific offences which relate to cycling, of which the speed at which the bike is being cycled may play *a part* in deciding whether or not an offence was committed, but there is no general speeding law which applies to pedal cycles. There is the odd by-law in a small number of specific places, eg royal parks, which can make speeding a cycling offence, but these are rare & relate to a specific geographical area.

    Hope this helps, as I don't want to see you cycling over the edge of a cliff following a sign which relates to motorised vehicles :biggrin:
     
  11. Johnny Thin

    Johnny Thin New Member

  12. Maggot

    Maggot Star of BBC 5Lives Ballot Box Brigade

    Location:
    Cheddar
    Not being a legal eagle meself like, but I think you will find that you can only be prosecuted for speeding in a vehicle that has to, by law, be fitted with a calibrated speedometer. Pushbikes do not, cars prior to a certain year do not, some farm vehicles do not, those things old folk potter about do not (etc).

    There in lies your answer, if he disagrees then twat him:thumbsup:
     
  13. domtyler

    domtyler Über Member

    It is theoretically possible for someone on foot to break the speed limit, does your mate think speeding peds should be ticketed? Seriously, he needs to be twatted.
     
  14. Saddle bum

    Saddle bum Über Member

    Location:
    Kent
    So how come the Traffic Fuhrers in Richmond Park can fine a rider for exceeding 20mph?
     
  15. domtyler

    domtyler Über Member

    Royal parks have their own rules, they are not standard highways.