Spiders - or Does Evolution Happen??

[Spinney]

Typical creationist tactic - no evidence of their own provided, just demands to 'demonstrate' or 'prove'...
As for demonstrating evolution - lets start small - the link that winjim provided in his post above says it all. Bacteria evolved to be able to utilise a new form of nutrition.
That demonstrates the process. Then you have around 3.8 billion years to work with, and changing environmental conditions as 'motivation' for things to evolve.
(I use the quotes around 'motivation' on purpose to indicate that I'm not intending a teleological argument here.)

 

[Spinney]

You mean that there isn't a great designer, called God, in the sky? Next you'll be telling me Santa doesn't exist.

Oh, I believe in Santa - NORAD tracks him every Xmas!

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Sorry, that's a claim, not a demonstration.

It's a graphical representation in order to display hundreds of years of biological and evolutionary study.

All that is shown there is available as academic research papers. But far beyond the scope of a cycling forum

 

[Dayvo]

You mean that there isn't a great designer, called God, in the sky? Next you'll be telling me Santa doesn't exist.

Ah, but there is!

http://www.rael.org/message

...Thousands of years ago, scientists from another planet came to Earth and created all forms of life, including human beings, whom they created in their own image. References to these scientists and their work can be found in the ancient texts of many cultures. Due to their highly advanced technology, they were considered as gods by our primitive ancestors and often referred to as 'Elohim' which in ancient Hebrew meant 'Those who came from the sky'.

Despite being a plural word, Elohim was mistranslated over time to the singular 'God' reference that appears in modern-day Bibles...

 

[mybike]

Except dinosaurs aren't really extinct, they just evolved into the birds...

Define 'demonstration' then.

You start with the LCA ancestor and produce all the families of organism by breeding. Much like Lenski attempted with E. coli

 

[mybike]

Ah, but there is!

http://www.rael.org/message

...Thousands of years ago, scientists from another planet came to Earth and created all forms of life, including human beings, whom they created in their own image. References to these scientists and their work can be found in the ancient texts of many cultures. Due to their highly advanced technology, they were considered as gods by our primitive ancestors and often referred to as 'Elohim' which in ancient Hebrew meant 'Those who came from the sky'.

Despite being a plural word, Elohim was mistranslated over time to the singular 'God' reference that appears in modern-day Bibles...

You wouldn't be a troublemaker would you?

 

[Dayvo]

Just accept that the bible (King James version) is correct.

Who could possibly disagree with the opening salvo?

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...

 

[Dayvo]

You wouldn't be a troublemaker would you?

Just someone with an open mind.

 

[Wafer]

Not sure why I'm bothering, but it's 'testable predictions' not complete demonstrations of everything that's ever happened....

The diagram at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method is quite clear.

There's a fair bit of luck involved in evolution as well (e.g. not being eaten) so it's not like you could write a formula that would predict how species would change over time.

Like others, still waiting to hear the more convincing alternative, though that's clearly being avoided.

 

[Spinney]

You start with the LCA ancestor and produce all the families of organism by breeding. Much like Lenski attempted did with E. coli

What, breed them all on a cycling forum on the internet???
You really are just wasting everyone's time, aren't you. Not arguing against anything, just 'because you cannot breed all extant forms of life from a LCA - evolution does not happen'


BTW, fixed your post for you...

 

[Spinney]

Not sure why I'm bothering, but it's 'testable predictions' not complete demonstrations of everything that's ever happened....

The diagram at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method is quite clear.

There's a fair bit of luck involved in evolution as well (e.g. not being eaten) so it's not like you could write a formula that would predict how species would change over time.

Like others, still waiting to hear the more convincing alternative, though that's clearly being avoided.

Also luck in which mutations occur that cause variation...

 

[benb]

@mybike - here is a good example. The evolution of synapsid jawbones into mammal middle ear bones. The hammer, anvil and stirrup that we find in the mammal middle ear are the same bones, repurposed, that we find in ancestral jaws.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_05 and, if that's a bit dry for you, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_mammalian_auditory_ossicles
From the latter: "The evolution of mammalian auditory ossicles is one of the most well-documented and important evolutionary events, demonstrating both numerous transitional forms as well as an excellent example of exaptation, the re-purposing of existing structures during evolution"

TBH, as you seem incapable of critically appraising evidence, I doubt you'll take any of this on board, but others might find it interesting.

 

[benb]

Here you go.

That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

 

[benb]

I just do!

I'm always suspicious of assumptions, and whilst I see no flaws as such in the current science, its just never sat well with me.

I don't think there are many assumptions as such, more educated bes guesses based on the evidence. The fossil record is patchy and incomplete, so we do have issues where palaeontologists are unsure whether bone A is from skeleton X or even if it's from species Y. Hence the long scientific arguments over whether brontosaurus was a distinct species from diplodocus.

However, I think the general size of the dinosaurs is very well established.

 

[mybike]

What, breed them all on a cycling forum on the internet???
You really are just wasting everyone's time, aren't you. Not arguing against anything, just 'because you cannot breed all extant forms of life from a LCA - evolution does not happen'


BTW, fixed your post for you...

Lenski's experiment resulted in E. coli turning into E. coli.